exploding-heads are infiltrating our discussions (slrpnk.net)

submitted 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) by Menu@slrpnk.net to c/lemmy@lemmy.ml

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The screenshot shows the recommendations from https://join-lemmy.org/.

Still being federated with exploding-heads does not mean the instance supports them. But it means that shit-heads are allowed to take part in the discussions on their communities. They do intoxicate the discussions we will have. They will attack minorities. Maybe you will not be harassed by them, more vulnerable people will be. They are allowed to moderate communities on these instances. Exploding-heads members actively guide young and unknowing people to their hateful instance.

They try to start discussions about the holocaust https://sh.itjust.works/post/227268. They create communities only to crosspost exploding-heads content https://lemmy.world/c/pharma They take over discussions against them https://exploding-heads.com/comment/132189 "WHY are vulnerable people joining a decentralized system? Isnt this why you want a closed, not for public eyes community?"

This was a link to exploding-heads, because when someone copies a permalink of a comment from them on another instance, it will be a link to their instance.

Are we building a place where vulnerable people are welcome and safe or are we building a place where nazis are welcome and safe?

They want you to block them, they comment that everywhere. They block people who are in favor of defederating them https://sh.itjust.works/post/225714 When their opponents won't see them anymore, they can harass and recruit without being noticed.

Blocking will not solve the problem. They will spread even when you close your eyes.

~~Maybe this was not done intentionally, but now~~ there is a post with a list of 'health communities on Lemmy' with the first entry guiding to exploding heads. https://lemmy.world/post/396561

It is still possible that some of the mentioned instances do support them. The owner of sh.itjust.works says that because of “free speech” all other instances would be allowed. It is suspicious to me that his line is drawn only for lemmygrad https://sh.itjust.works/comment/130474

The decision to block the Lemmygrad instance was less a question of censorship, and more an issue of personal conviction. As a volunteer dedicating my personal resources and time to facilitating a space for users to create, discover, and discuss - not just on this instance, but across the Fediverse - I admit that this choice was made alone, selfishly, without the consent or thoroughly considering the collective opinion of the community. With the above said, sh.itjust.works has had the lemmygrad instance blocked from its first day.

I’d like to also point out that the lemmygrad instance has far more blocked instances than what is currently blocked here. Maybe you can create a post on that instance to see what that’s all about and report back?

At the same time they seem to ignore the call and vote to defederate with exploding-heads https://sh.itjust.works/post/433483.

They rejected to delete The_Donald from sh.itjust.works until they feared to get isolated from the other instances: https://lemmy.ml/post/1467310. They where aware of The_Donald and ignored early warnings. (https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/comment/266248). TD was more important to them than keeping the only mod of their 4th biggest community c/patientgamers (https://sh.itjust.works/post/291747, https://sh.itjust.works/post/388922)

Since The_Donald was removed, I did not find more racist content on the mentioned servers. That is part their tactics. They act harmless but recruit to their instance, attract likeminded people and chase others away. Discussions on sh.itjust.works about such topics are very toxic already, soon they might be able to do more harm.

(My research is very limited, as i could not search for all exploding-heads member content on other instances by entering their domain. I know there are nice communities on sh.itjust.works.)

What can be done? On joinmastodon.org there is a Mastodon Server Covenant with very few useful rules, one of them is "Active moderation against racism, sexism, homophobia and transphobia". https://joinmastodon.org/covenant It would be a first step to implement these rules for join-lemmy.org. At least instances that want to be recommended on there should have to agree to that rule.

More actions should be taken now. Please make suggestions. Things will only become more complicated. The next reddit wave is incoming.

For those who did not already know:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance

https://www.upworthy.com/bartender-explains-why-he-swiftly-kicks-nazis-out-of-his-punk-bar-even-if-theyre-not-bothering-anyone

This is not the first time new platforms face these problems, do we really have to repeat the same mistakes?

-Share/crosspost

-Contact admins

update: lemmy.word defederated eh

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[-] antik@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

Exploding-heads.com has been blocked by https://lemmy.world as well.

Full list of our linked and blocked instances can be found here: https://lemmy.world/instances

[-] Menu@slrpnk.net 1 points 2 years ago

Good. Are you actively moderating against racism, sexism, homophobia and transphobia?

[-] WhoRoger@lemmy.world 0 points 2 years ago

Maybe this was not done intentionally, but now there is a post with a list of ‘health communities on Lemmy’ with the first entry guiding to exploding heads. https://lemmy.world/post/396561

I'm building that list and no, it wasn't intentional. It being first is completely accidental. As you can see, "general health" communities are at the top, and well the one from xheads is the most general purpose (another one is on Midwest US and the other is Mander so more scientific).

I didn't know or even care where the communities come from. In the post I clearly state I don't vouch for any of them, and people can let me know if they think some don't belong.

I called for help or advice on multiple occasions, guess how many people offered any? Zero.

Honestly until this post I didn't even know there's any controversy with that instance. I never visited it, it's just been under my radar. I know some instances don't like other instances and it just becomes noise to me, honestly.

I don't know what would you have me do here? Remove the link? What other links should I remove because some instances have some oddball users? Should I remove Lemmygrad links too?

I'm not claiming to be the Red Cross or anything, but I was hoping to have a neutral list that's as complete as possible.

This may seem like a problem specific to this list of mine, but see how easy to suddenly be indirectly accused of supporting nazis or something. Let's not be so hasty alright?

Btw, I was just about to try to figure out how or if to include lgbtq+ matters in the health community, and wanted to go ask some actual lgbtq+ people because I want their input rather than just guess myself. Now I'm wondering if I'd also be accused of being a provocateur or something else for trying to be open to everyone.

[-] Frikisada@lemmy.world 0 points 2 years ago

Shit, to what server should I move that doesn't federate with nazis? Idc how they call themselves these days, you know what I mean with nazis

Also I see the name lemmygrad thrown around, what's the story with them?

The questions aren't specifically for OP

[-] Drewfro66@lemmygrad.ml 0 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

Also I see the name lemmygrad thrown around, what’s the story with them?

Lemmygrad.ml is an instance for Marxist-Leninists and other Socialists who are broadly pro-AES (Actually Existing Socialism, i.e. the USSR, PRC, Cuba, Vietnam, East Germany, etc.) and anti-West. Criticism of AES is fine; but the assumption is that you're there because you think AES is better than Actually Existing Capitalism. If you've ever heard of podcasts like TrueAnon or The Deprogram (or even Chapo Traphouse, to some extent, though they're more "ML-sympathetic" than "Outright Marxist-Leninists"), it'll give you a general idea of what sort of politics they're about.

Lemmygrad is where Leftist Redditors go when their favorite subs (/r/ChapoTrapHouse, /r/MoreTankieChapo, /r/FULLCOMMUNISM, /r/GenZedong) get banned or quarantined.

I'm not a big Lemmy-head, but I saw this post on lemmygrad so I assume that means your instance is federated with lemmygrad.

[-] Frikisada@lemmy.world 0 points 2 years ago

Let's say I'm technically affiliated to the biggest ML party of the country where I come from, am I going to find marxists, or is it more of an American leftist thing?

[-] CannotSleep420@lemmygrad.ml 4 points 2 years ago

You're gonna have a preponderance of users from the imperial core (hard to avoid that on the internet), but a significant number of users are from the imperial periphery.

[-] Percy@lemmy.one 0 points 2 years ago

As a lemmy.one user I will move to somewhere else after bringing this up. Any recommended places to move to?

[-] dmmeyournudes@lemmy.world 0 points 2 years ago

you know you can just block them yourself right? you don't have to force your opinion on everyone. if most people block them they will become just as isolated as if they were defederated anyways.

[-] MakuNagetto@lemmy.world 0 points 2 years ago

Why give them a platform and an audience to begin with? They're the scum of the earth. Fuck them.

[-] fubo@lemmy.world 0 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

Specifically, any fascist group is a conspiracy to commit murder. As such, there is no "free speech" reason to tolerate fascist organizing.

Edited to add: Discussion of fascist views is a different matter. I specifically mean people using your stuff to organize fascist groups or activities. If they're trying to rally people into a group that wants to murder Jews or LGBT+ or socialists or liberals, then they're not just discussing views — they're conspiring crimes, and you don't have any good reason to support them under "free speech" principles. Even the libertarians object to "force and fraud".

[-] darkwing_duck@sh.itjust.works 0 points 2 years ago

So, can we extend that to any communist group as well then?

[-] Lols@lemm.ee 0 points 2 years ago

no, conspiracy to commit murder is not an inherent aspect of communist ideology in the same way that it is integral to fascism

[-] darkwing_duck@sh.itjust.works 0 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

How's that? Every time I've pressed a communist about how they will deal with non conformity should their revolution succeed, they eventually agree that the plan is to kill them.

[-] Lols@lemm.ee 0 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

because regardless or anecdotes, a communist ideal does not by definition necessitate a conspiracy to commit murder

even if not a single pacifist communist existed, and they do, itd still be totally possible to be both a pacifist and a communist

in contrast, violence is a fundamental part of what makes fascism fascism. a fascist party will never be pacifistic, because it would no longer be fascist

[-] darkwing_duck@sh.itjust.works 0 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

Come back down to the real world. People don't want communism unless you force them into it under the barrel of a gun. Communism means my individual wants, needs, and property is decided by the will of the people, which in reality translates to the will of a few dozen elite Party members at the top of the scheme. I'm not an ant in a colony.

As someone whose family has been massacred by Stalin's repressions while every single possession was stolen, I'm going to go ahead and not join your cult. Thanks. I bet if it happened again, you'd be cheering in support.

[-] Lols@lemm.ee 0 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

im not a communist and my explaining how violence is not a literal part of the definition for communism as it is with fascism is not proselytism

is that what you were doing? trying to get folks to join your cult of fascism?

[-] darkwing_duck@sh.itjust.works 0 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

🤦‍♂️

Literally just explained and demonstrated with an example of how communism inevitably requires violence, and that literally every communist would agree, but you just plug your ears and go lalala. Ok buddy.

[-] Lols@lemm.ee 0 points 2 years ago

actually, you distinctly said 'every communist ive pushed far enough', not 'literally every communist'

heres some that dont agree

[-] darkwing_duck@sh.itjust.works 0 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

They just haven't been prodded sufficiently to spill what they really want post-revolution and how exactly they would accomplish it. If kumbaya is their plan, well, it isn't going to succeed.

[-] Lols@lemm.ee 0 points 2 years ago

If kumbaya is their plan, well, it isn’t going to succeed.

it sure seems like this is less about communists believing that violence is necessary, and more about you believing violence is necessary

[-] darkwing_duck@sh.itjust.works 0 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

Look, it's really simple.

You can't have communism unless everyone participates, and you can 100% guarantee not everyone will want to participate.

Therefore, either they are forced to participate, or it doesn't happen. There really isn't another option.

[-] Lols@lemm.ee 0 points 2 years ago

being forced to participate in society is called following the laws of the country youre in

am i correctly understanding that you believe that enforcing the law automatically necessitates killing people? thats a pretty scary thing to believe, and in no way indicative of any particular ideology im sure

its also false, considering the continued existence of countries that have abolished the death penalty entirely

on a side note, can you explain why you moved the goal posts from 'communists want to kill everyone' to 'well maybe not all of them but the ones that dont will never succeed' to 'well having laws means killing people'

[-] darkwing_duck@sh.itjust.works 0 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

am i correctly understanding that you believe that enforcing the law automatically necessitates killing people?

When the law declares that I have no freedom to choose what I do with my life, no freedom of movement and no private property, that isn't a law I am going to ever accept. So it necessitates violence against me, obviously.

‘communists want to kill everyone'

More like, "communists want to force their will upon everyone else which necessitates violence"

‘well maybe not all of them but the ones that dont will never succeed’

Duh? Communism requires property appropriation. How exactly do you steal property without violence?

‘well having laws means killing people’

That's you, not me.

[-] Lols@lemm.ee 0 points 2 years ago

no actually, since the conversation is explicitly about conspiracy to commit murder, arguing that any belief in enforcing participation in society constitutes that is explicitly saying that having laws automatically means killing people

you dont actually get to say 'violence' instead of 'murder' in a conversation about murder, and then pretend that you arent talking about murder

unless this is you admitting that communism is not actually a conspiracy to commit murder, in which case cool i agree!

[-] darkwing_duck@sh.itjust.works 1 points 6 months ago

Ok, “communists want to force their will upon everyone else which necessitates murder”

Are you happy?

[-] Candelestine@lemmy.world -2 points 2 years ago

Given that at no time in human history has shit ever "just worked" without looking from an extremely narrow viewpoint, I think it's fairly easy to discern this Instance's goals: to be a bridge from the extreme right to the rest of the community.

Certainly fits the pattern.

[-] Wiwiweb@sh.itjust.works 0 points 2 years ago

That's a bit far-fetched. The name "shit just works" doesn't have any right-wing connotations. If you google it you get Bethesda memes and some Apple stuff.

I think the admin is just one dude who wasn't prepared for their instance to become so big. So far they've done the right thing given a couple days. Yesterday I saw an "anti vax" community on sh.itjustwor.ks, I reported it, today it's gone.

Until I see an actual "actually we should debate the Nazis" comment from them or maybe like a week has passed without action I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt.

[-] Candelestine@lemmy.world -3 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

It's not a meme. It's a paraphrasing of a basic philosophy that runs contradictory to most others in the modern world. You know it when you see it.

You can give the benefit of the doubt to whomever you like. But this is not some universal open communication platform like some may wish it to be. (we already have one of those, it's called 4chan) It's just a social media organization, just like dozens before it. That's why we have the tools that we do.

this post was submitted on 26 Jun 2023

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