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This is good discourse. I appreciate it and learned a lot.
I like Marx and am iffy about Lenin. I also consider myself a libertarian regarding most issues and dislike hedonism. That doesn't put me somewhere specific regarding ideology but that's that.
Just curious, why do you dislike hedonism? How does that fit into a political/social ideology? This is in no way a challenge.
I'm iffy about Lenin too. Marx and Engels wrote about bottom up socialism but Lenin came along and basically said the working class is too stupid for a socialist revolution and opted for top down socialism which led to authoritarian socialism and state capitalism.
Our neolib capitalist society is top down governance which is why I highly oppose everything that isn't bottom up socialism
A lot of the socialists on Lemmy.ml are MLs (hence the domain) and many of them are authoritarian leftist or at least sympathetic to the authoritarian reformism of that of Stalin. I personally prefer the Beehaw socialism community as it is inherently anti-authoritarian. Lemmygrad is a tankie infested cesspit with brainrotten propaganda regurgitators who have never read theory and struggle to fit the definitions of Leftists.
im so glad that people here dislike that tankie hellhole, because i tried to join and had a terrible experience.
@ivereadalltheory @CharmingOwl yes MLs are authoritarian, im not sure why this surprises you. Engels wrote about authority quite a lot and id reccomend giving his work 'on authority' a look; its at most a ten minute read
tho i have seen my fare share of poor takes coming out of lemmy
I've read On Authority. There's good reason for my identifying as a socialist rather than a ML. I don't necessarily have a fundamental disagreement with the use of authoritarianism, however the way in which it has ever been implemented has been abominable and the defense of that by most MLs I've interacted with leads me to detest them when they're aware of what they're doing or assume they're an idiot who's fallen to the USSR billboard propaganda aesthetic if they're not.
... let's get some historical conditions straight: USSR was a wartime communism born and deformed by Western invasion (from USA and allies, no less) and persisted under a state of seige, so it didn't have the luxury of a more democratic communism envisioned by Lenin. Even today, aligned with Trotskyist permanent revolution everywhere but their own govts, the same usual suspects are angling by invasion or insurgency to break up and loot Russia (along with China) who isn't caught off-guard this time. Existential then, existential now.
I would also love to know what you think of the standard bogies of Cuba and Venezuela, or heck, even ML Vietnam or Kerala.
While the west was unquestionably antagonistic. Which you know is sort of a thing that can happen when you unilaterally overthrow a number of countries governments than forcibly annex them.
How in any way does Western antagonism justify those nations treatment of their own people? And how on earth can an anti-democratic uniparty ever be Democratic? Are you trying to convince anyone that there were no gulags etc? Or that it was ever good for dissenters? I mean we could ask all the people that were disappeared or assassinated. Not just in Russia. But in North Korea and China too. Do we need to mention tiananmen square or the Uyghurs? But they're dead and gone. Cuba I think is a much more nuanced and better example. But still heavily flawed and problematic. You cannot blame it all on Western antagonism. It isn't some panacea that alleviates you of all fault. Authoritarian communism is antithesis to Marx's own theory. And will never work in reality. Authoritarianism is always destined to fail. No matter how long it drags on.
You realise the USA has its own slave labour gulag unmatched by Russia and China today, right? Though Soviet gulag was ruthless, born to meet rapid wartime industrialisation and unrelenting landowners (kulaks), it was more lax and informal than Auschwitz death camps that you wish to portray.
Meanwhile, Jim Crow and sundown towns in the USA oversaw its own apartheid underclass, many of whom looked to Soviet Russia for equity, Paul Robeson being the most notable.
Edit: replaced Tsarist-era 'The Black Russian' episode with more intended Soviet-era link, quite belatedly.
this post was submitted on 20 Jun 2023
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