[-] hok@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

Thanks for your answer. I think to be clear, what I'm looking for is a kind of masked fine-tuning. You see, I want to "steer" a particular output instead of providing complete examples, which are costly to create.

The steering would be something like this:

  1. I have an LLM generate a sequence.
  2. I find exactly where the LLM goes "off track" and correct it there (for only maybe 10-20 tokens instead of correcting the rest of the generation manually).
  3. The LLM continues "on track" until it goes off track again.

What I would like to do is train the model based on these corrections I give it, where many corrections might be part of the same overall generation. Conceptually I think each correction must have some training value. I don't know much about masking, but what I mean here is that I don't want it to train on a few tens or hundreds of (incomplete) samples but rather thousands of (masked) "steers" that correct the course of the rest of the sample's generated text.

[-] hok@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 1 week ago

Sorry, I really don't care to continue talking about the difference between supervised and unsupervised learning. It's a pattern used to describe how you are doing ML. It's not a property of a dataset (you wouldn't call Dataset A "unsupervised"). Read the Wikipedia articles for more details.

[-] hok@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 1 week ago

No, in that case there's no labelling required. That would be unsupervised learning.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unsupervised_learning

Conceptually, unsupervised learning divides into the aspects of data, training, algorithm, and downstream applications. Typically, the dataset is harvested cheaply "in the wild", such as massive text corpus obtained by web crawling, with only minor filtering (such as Common Crawl). This compares favorably to supervised learning, where the dataset (such as the ImageNet1000) is typically constructed manually, which is much more expensive.

[-] hok@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 1 week ago

Ground truth labels are just prescriptive labels that we recognize as being true. The main thing that distinguishes unsupervised from supervised is that in unsupervised learning, what is "good" is learned from the unstructured data itself. In supervised learning, what is "good" is learned from some external input, like "good" human-provided examples.

[-] hok@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

No, it's unsupervised. In pre-training, the text data isn't structured at all. It's books, documents, online sources, all put together.

Supervised learning uses data with "ground truth" labels.

[-] hok@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 1 week ago

This pre-training was done by Meta. It's what Llama-3.1-405B is (in contrast to Llama-3.1-405B-Instruct). https://huggingface.co/meta-llama/Llama-3.1-405B

Training Data

Overview: Llama 3.1 was pretrained on ~15 trillion tokens of data from publicly available sources. The fine-tuning data includes publicly available instruction datasets, as well as over 25M synthetically generated examples.

[-] hok@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 1 week ago

Unsupervised training happens during the pre-training phase when you dump all kinds of quality documents and it learns the relationship between tokens

[-] hok@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 1 week ago

The article you linked to uses SFT (supervised fine tuning, a specific training technique) as its alignment strategy. There are other ways to fine-tune a model.

I guess I'm wondering if you can train on these partial responses without needing the full rest of the output, without the stop token, or if you need full examples as the article hints to.

[-] hok@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Can SFT be used on partial generations? What I mean by a "steer" is a correction to only a portion, and not even the end, of model output.

For example, a "bad" partial output might be:

<assistant> Here are four examples:
1. High-quality example 1
2. Low-quality example 2

and the "steer" might be:

<assistant> Here are four examples:
1. High-quality example 1
2. High-quality example 2

but the full response will eventually be:

<assistant> Here are four examples:
1. High-quality example 1
2. High-quality example 2
3. High-quality example 3
4. High-quality example 4

The corrections don't include the full output.

12
submitted 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) by hok@lemmy.dbzer0.com to c/localllama@sh.itjust.works

I want to fine tune an LLM to "steer" it in the right direction. I have plenty of training examples in which I stop the generation early and correct the output to go in the right direction, and then resume generation.

Basically, for my dataset doing 100 "steers" on a single task is much cheaper than having to correct 100 full generations completely, and I think each of these "steer" operations has value and could be used for training.

So maybe I'm looking for some kind of localized DPO. Does anyone know if something like this exists?

[-] hok@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 3 weeks ago

Thank you so much, that exactly answers my question with the official response (that guy works at Meta) that confirms it's the same base model!

I was concerned primarily because in the release notes it strangely didn't mention it anywhere, and I thought it would have been important enough to mention.

17

People are talking about the new Llama 3.3 70b release, which has generally better performance than Llama 3.1 (approaching 3.1's 405b performance): https://www.llama.com/docs/model-cards-and-prompt-formats/llama3_3

However, something to note:

Llama 3.3 70B is provided only as an instruction-tuned model; a pretrained version is not available.

Is this the end of open-weight pretrained models from Meta, or is Llama 3.3 70b instruct just a better-instruction-tuned version of a 3.1 pretrained model?

Comparing the model cards: 3.1: https://github.com/meta-llama/llama-models/blob/main/models/llama3_1/MODEL_CARD.md 3.3: https://github.com/meta-llama/llama-models/blob/main/models/llama3_3/MODEL_CARD.md

The same knowledge cutoff, same amount of training data, and same training time give me hope that it's just a better finetune of maybe Llama 3.1 405b.

hok

joined 2 years ago