Regarding what CIA means by "collective leadership":
https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP80-01446R000100020012-2.pdf
It is entirely possible that the Soviet leaders are about to develop a new form of "dictatorship by committee", giving them the advantage of appearing to be quasi-democratic.
When we speak of collective leadership, we mean a committee of a very few men, probably not more than five or six. The larger the membership, the greater the likelihood that fractionalization may occur, dividing the committee into antagonistic groups.
Okay mister Bolshevik. What you write is contrary to everything that I’ve read about soviet governance, but I guess I’ll just have to take your word for it.
I am neither a mister nor a Bolshevik. If you don't know the meaning of "collective leadership", then it's on you.
The collective west is currently taking part in an active genocide, out in the open for all to see. But gommunism bad holodomor vuvuzela no iPhone. We can’t upset the genocidal ruling class now, can we?
Are you having a stroke?
You only need to placate and disarm a class if they become a threat to your power.
Or you want to push them further to achieve your goals.
Or there's a threat of external forces using internal disorder for their purposes.
Why is this important?
Your original statement - "compelled to by democratic forces" - was implying (maybe accidentally), that those forces have at least partial power in the government. It sounded similar to the social democratic idea of "The workers have a say in the government, so they vote for things they desire".
Your newer statement - "become a threat to your power" - is then paralleled with "success in class conflict". Both imply there's a strong workers' movement making demands. What I want to point out is that it is not necessarily the case, as there are often other pressures at play which don't directly involve the labor movement.
USSR had both a need for a compliant workforce to simplify the execution of economic plans and a great threat of external hostile forces leveraging internal strife, both of which made it a very appealing option to keep the working class as non-threatening as possible.
[Proofs and indicators] do not at all [serve similar goal rhetorically]
You don't need to explain to me how formal proofs work. However, I was talking about rhetoric, not logic.
When you are talking to a person or a group of people and say things like:
- "The use of word 'degeneracy' implies fascist beliefs"
- "The desire for class collaboration is a proof of fascism"
- "The obsession with a plotting Other suggest fascist ideology"
All of these serve the same goal in your speech. It tells people around:
"Because of X you should believe that person is a fascist".
My point is that it doesn't matter whether you used "proof" or "indication", that either of them would be there to have a person read about the USSR's welfare policies and go "Hm, I guess USSR was actually democratic".
Your original sarcastic comment had other possible interpretations: "democracy is a meaningless term", or "democracy is secondary to well-being of the populace", but these are even more reactionary than the welfare-democracy one, and your following response suggested that was the one you intended.
So far, you have yet to explain how exactly the USSR under Stalin was not democratic
I've been waiting for you to explain the contrary, as your only point to that so far was the welfare one. You also haven't yet explained what meaning of "democracy" you subscribe to, as you have suggested you don't believe the welfare explanation. It would be a waste of time for me to present a refutal, only for you to not believe in its core, thus rendering all the work futile.
You have managed to miss both the point of the joke and my explanation of it
I know you were sarcastic in the original comment, which is why I asked you to make an actual point.
They key points of your response were:
A state only does welfare policies when it is compelled to by democratic forces.
The USSR [did a lot of welfare]
these policies ... are certainly a strong indicator [of democracy]
The first point you're wrong on, as I have explained.
The second point I agree on.
The third point you are again wrong on, as examples I've provided demonstrate.
Both proofs and indicators serve similar goals rhetorically, I don't see the point of your distinction here. I also didn't say "proof" when criticizing your point:
Your “welfare implies democracy” take
Now going further.
Oh, was the USSR under Stalin fascist then?
I have no idea what led you to think I'm saying this, stop being defensive. It did do some things that, if were done by a western liberal government, would've lead to accusations of fascism, but that is beside the point.
Was it simply “placating” and “disarming” the working population?
That is correct, however; both figuratively and literally.
Nobody but the most dumbass of ultras can pretend
Now you're just posturing. Please stop.
I heard that V was a representation of an open palm with 5 fingers. And X is two palms
Hi pal, I've stumbled into this really cool trans girl here https://hexbear.net/u/Catradora_Stalinism
She seems to be really into Stalinism. You have no relation to her in any way, do ya?
Otherwise that would mean you were lying to all the people here about who you are and what your beliefs are
Have a nice day!
To all taking this person seriously, she seems to be an alt of https://hexbear.net/u/Catradora_Stalinism, a hexbear/lemmygrad user
It all comes down to ego
EDIT: I've made myself clear what I was talking about. The context was there, you were the first one to bring up the 20th century people. I could take some responsibility as the term is vague, but too many of you went for the dunks and posturing, making up shit about what I meant on the fly. The problem that truth here is relative and if enough of you decide that is what happened, whatever context I had in mind wouldn't matter. It's easy to be cynical about the whole interaction for both of us. Also good for the ego, as being wrong hurts and we all know it. I'm off to bed, will see if you add something else here later. It wasn't nice to talk to you, bye.
"My terminally online movement is not full of fascists and useful idiots parroting fascist propaganda because of, uhm, history" Yes, tell me again about the freikorps while every day I see another hazoid being besties with Nazis, or being a fascist themselves.
Why would anyone do that? Wokeness is rad and cool, while tankies love to do fascist apologia, which is highly unwoke