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submitted 1 year ago by o_o@programming.dev to c/asklemmy@lemmy.ml

Hi all,

I'm seeing a lot of hate for capitalism here, and I'm wondering why that is and what the rationale behind it is. I'm pretty pro-capitalism myself, so I want to see the logic on the other side of the fence.

If this isn't the right forum for a political/economic discussion-- I'm happy to take this somewhere else.

Cheers!

[-] o_o@programming.dev 1 points 1 year ago

I do the same! It works quite well.

[-] o_o@programming.dev 0 points 1 year ago

My point is that any meaningful capital is directly tied to resource usage. Our ability to produce energy directly depends on our ability to mine resources to build power plants and maintain them. Saying that we can increase energy production infinitely is reductive beyond any meaning, it’s like a physics problem about a perfectly spherical cow.

Not at all! To use real examples to avoid spherical cows:

Used to be that you needed wood to generate energy. Then coal (which is an order of magnitude better). Then oil (another order of magnitude). Then solar. Then fission. Then (hopefully) fusion. Then who knows what. At each step, we've taken something which previously wasn't considered a resource at all and used it to generate exponentially more and more energy. There's no limit to how often we can do this-- things which were previously not resources become resources once we know how to use them.

Another example is food production. I saw a graph recently-- if I find it I'll edit this message to include it, but it showed how it used to be that we needed 100% of our population dedicated to food production. Now it's less than 1%. Meaning that 1 person is producing enough food for 100 people. Incredible.

These examples (and many more) show that our ability to produce things are not subject to limitations of natural resources, because natural resources aren't limited. There's enough energy coming out of the sun to be infinite, for all intents and purposes.

[-] o_o@programming.dev -1 points 1 year ago

Yes, natural resources are limited, but that doesn't mean that capital is limited. What I mean is that: yes, we're using more energy as a civilization, but thanks to the investment of capital, we're also expanding our ability to produce more energy at the same time. And "how much energy our civilization is capable of producing" can increase infinitely.

Yeah, the problem of pollution is certainly an existential threat. But I don't think it's fair to say that the type of threat is "we're running out of resources". We're not running out of anything, we're just producing too much atmospheric carbon!

[-] o_o@programming.dev 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

This is essentially the argument that Thomas Malthus (economist) made in the 1800's. And he had a point!

In his time, history had shown that the entire output of a country/state was people's productivity times some function of land and labour. Meaning you could increase the output of a country by making people more productive (limited), or increasing the land available (limited), or by increasing the labour available (also limited). Therefore, there was a hard limit on how much output a country could have. And therefore we were fucked because population increases exponentially but output only increases linearly and has limits.

I think this is similar to your lego analogy: the pieces (land, labour) are limited, therefore the output is also limited.

Then the capitalist revolution happened and once the capitalist-style legal framework was in place which allowed the ownership of capital, countries' outputs broke from the historical trend. We realized that a different function better described the output of a country. Rather than land, the correct thing to look at was capital. So the new function was people's productivity times some function of land and capital (hence, capitalism).

And unlike land, capital is, in fact, unlimited. Someone might build a factory on the land, and owning the factory, he/she has incentive to improve the factory. "How much you can improve the factory" is, for all intents and purposes, unlimited. Therefore the output is also unlimited. This equation better described the growth in output that people were seeing in reality (GDP is an attempt to measure this), which has been growing exponentially ever since.

So... we're not fucked? Well, it remains to be seen! We've certainly avoided being fucked so far! The standard of living of the average person on Earth has increased by a lot since Malthus.

Of course, this has come with negative externalities (pollution). We're still seeing infinite growth riiiiiight up until we go extinct. The trick is to keep the infinite growth without going extinct!

EDIT: spelling correction

[-] o_o@programming.dev 0 points 1 year ago

Absolutely fair enough. Am happy to agree to disagree. I enjoyed the debate haha!

And yes, you have a good point: Meta would indeed get value through federation, and perhaps you don't want to support Meta's goals, so you don't want to allow them to proceed. Perhaps we could enhance our user/community level moderation tools to achieve these goals? Maybe you as a user could say something like "never shall any of my posts be sent to Meta's instance". Or maybe community mods could say "Meta users can't join/post/see our community". I'm even happy if instances enable such filters by default! I just don't think defederation is the right tool for the job, because it defeats the vision of a connected universe.

I don’t feel like the example with email is fair, because it’s comparing a private messaging service between two users, and a social network where you provide content for other users

Yeah, but I believe the principle holds.

Again, thanks for the opposing viewpoint. Glad we had the debate. Cheers!

[-] o_o@programming.dev 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I appreciate your engaging with me on this, though you haven't convinced me yet :)

I'm in agreement with you that Meta absolutely intends to exploit "the fediverse" for their own benefit: to gain users by making their platform valuable.

But... my take on this is: so what? If the fediverse can only operate when all actors are benevolent and selfless, then it won't last very long at all. And, even if it does, it's not as valuable to me that way, so I'll be leaving. What's the value of a fediverse if it doesn't even federate with any of the major players that have the most resources?

This would be even worse if we defederate later, once it turns out that Meta is trying to do something that really warants a defederation.

I honestly don't think that anything ever justifies defederation, aside from technical limitations. If you want to run a gated forum, fine, but then don't call it a "fediverse". It's just a forum. Would we say that it's fair for Google to say "From now on, Gmail will not send emails to @republican_party.org email addresses because we don't agree with them"?

EDIT 1: I haven't made my point very clearly. Am currently editing this message to make it clearer.

EDIT 2: Left the comment the way it was. Am struggling to express myself properly-- this is the best I can do at the moment.

[-] o_o@programming.dev 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

So, are we saying we want more people to create accounts on Meta's Threads?

That's what defederation would imply: people who want to interact with Meta's folks and be in touch with Meta's community would end up creating accounts there. We'd be handing users to Meta by doing that.

Clearly, Meta has tons of resources to invest. If they have half a braincell among them, they'll be able to create some value with those resources. Given that they're launching Threads with or without federation, we now have two options:

  1. We let Meta enhance the value of all instances.
  2. We lock out Meta, and all their value created remains their own.

What are we even talking about here? A ton of people put in a ton of effort and work to create a platform where the whole point is to have different organizations be able to inter-operate without any one instance gaining too much power. As soon as someone with actual resources wants to contribute, we shut them out? Folks, if a single organization could bring down the fediverse, then the "decentralize so that no one can gain too much power" model is proven wrong, and it was bound to fail anyway.

If we become an echo chamber where the only one who can be part of the "fediverse" are people without resources, then what's even the point? Who wants an email service that can't send emails to Gmail and Hotmail, but only YourFriendlyLocalInstance.com?

The way I see it, we should absolutely not defederate. I'd prefer to see Google or Twitter also join the fediverse, and have them competing amongst each other to make sure we have enough competition to keep any of them from wanting to defederate.

EDIT: Quoting this deep child-level comment, which explains my point of view better:

We care about the vision of a “fediverse”, where all instances’ users can talk to one another if they choose. If that’s what we care about, there’s no choice here: federate, or you’ve already broken the vision.

Look, no one is saying that programming.dev should promote Meta’s content on their home page. Let’s beef up our moderation/content filtering tools:

  • Let users block all Meta communities and all Meta users if they choose.
  • Let users set that none of their posts should federate to Meta.
  • Let community mods block all posts from Meta users.
  • Let community mods decide never to let Meta users see any of the posts on their community.
  • Let the instance owners decide never to feature a Meta user’s post or a Meta community post on “all” or “local”. Make it so that the only way to find a Meta post/user is by actively searching for it or subscribing to their communities.

That’s all well and good.

But defederation is worse than that. What defederation really means is: “Even if programming.dev users want to see Meta content or post there, we won’t allow it. Go create an account there instead.” As soon as you do that, it’s not a fediverse anymore.

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submitted 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) by o_o@programming.dev to c/programming@programming.dev

cross-posted from: https://programming.dev/post/223663

Hey folks!

I've noticed that it's often difficult for newcomers to git to understand what the heck is happening and how the commands work.

Here's a flowchart that has helped me explain things in the past, and (more than once) folks have asked me for a copy of it to use as a cheat sheet. Hope it's helpful!

I’ve crossposted this in multiple places where I think it’s relevant. Hope y’all get some use out of it too! (Mods, please let me know if I should take it down)

EDIT: added non-transparent image, hopefully more visible for dark mode users.

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submitted 1 year ago by o_o@programming.dev to c/fantasy@lemmy.ml

The crowd went silent when the human entered the bar. You didn’t see many of their kind here. He grumbled, uncomfortable for the attention, walked up to the counter and signaled for a mug.

That’s when the whispers started. Mayfly. Young one. The walking dead. He was happy to down his ale.

You see, this wasn’t your average bar. This was a speakeasy, one of the few scattered across the world where the elves and the dwarves shared a drink. Where the seraphim flirted with yokai, while fae fluttered from table to table. Where the orcs played chess at their own table, practically drowning themselves in ale. Where seldom a human showed his face.

They aren’t rare, of course, humans. No, quite the opposite. They simply didn’t live long enough. Speakeasies are illegal, you see – no self respecting elf could be seen drinking with a dwarf, or dare I say, an orc – so they’re not exactly advertised. The humans who helped found these establishments had long since died. They’re mayflies, alive just barely long enough to be young, and dead practically as they learned to walk. The new humans since simply hadn’t heard of the place.

“There you are, Arthur! It’s been a long time since I saw you last!”

The bar quieted once again as she walked in. Drea, high elf, and uncontested beauty. Many pairs of eyes tracked her as she comfortably made her way to the counter, where the human was nursing his second drink.

“Has it been that long? Seems like only yesterday,” he said.

A second passed before he cracked a smile.

“But it is nice to see you again, Drea, after all these years. I was beginning to get bored.” She laughed, embraced him, and for a while they simply enjoyed each other, rocking slightly as they hugged.

The chatter in the bar changed as the pair caught up. The beautiful, stately high elf laughing as the human told some story, snorting as the ale went up her nose. She was clearly smitten, and many of the larger orcs and stronger dwarves, now more than a little intoxicated, took exception to such a lady falling for a human.

“No!” she was saying between laughing spurts, “Surely Matt told you it was a bad idea!”

“Was it, though? I’m telling you, my arms are pretty long, and the River doesn’t have any– Ah, can I help you gentlemen?”

A dwarf had approached the counter in the company of a rather large orc, both wearing faces that shouted “I’m stricken by her beauty, but I don’t want her to know it.” “Nae, nae youngster,” said the dwarf. “I’d more like if ye lady friend here’d care for another drink! So’thing stronger, maybe, with some flavor!”

“Aye,” the orc boomed, “something stronger!”

Arthur quietly admitted to himself, he was impressed with the orc’s bulging muscles as he flexed. Drea, apparently, wasn’t.

“Oh quiet yourselves, my friends. I’m afraid you’ll have to drink with each other. I am quite taken.”

A fist slammed hard on the counter, “By the human?! What can this young thing do that I can’t! I can lift a mountain!”

Arthur believed him. He tapped the orc on the shoulder to get his attention, and felt the rock of his muscle.

“Aye, my friend,” he said, “taken by me. I’m sure there are others here that would be more receptive of your charm?”

“Nae,” said the dwarf, “I wan' te know what makes ye better than us who been buildin' when ye gran’father still be suckling milk!”

“Ah but we can so easily tell you,” said Drea.

Arthur wasn’t so sure. “We can?”

“Sure, sure! Please continue your story.”

He still wasn’t sure where she was going with this, but no one ever had to prompt him twice to tell a story! He swigged his ale and cleared his throat, warming back up to the tale.

“Aye, so there I was, at the top of the cliff by the bank of the Gaiden’s Blood River with my friend Matt. We were looking at the River down below. I’ve been swimming in it, and it’s gorgeous. It’s exactly the perfect temperature and it’s so deep and wide you can swim for hours. I really did feel like a swim– it was getting rather boring up top.”

Eyes started widening as Redbeard and Grukk began to realize where this was going. Gaiden’s Blood River, as you probably know, is the largest river in the world. As the story goes, when the blood rushed out from the god Gaiden’s wound, the force of it cut such a deep swathe in the earth that its banks are huge cliffs. How the River changed from blood to water is a story for another time, but the cliffs are so high that a dive would surely kill even the most sturdy dwarf.

Surely he didn’t.

“Surely ye didn’t”

“Jump? Of course not! I’ve no wish for death. See, we have these things called parachutes – large cuts of fabric, as large as the largest dining table in the largest hall, that catch the air and slow your fall. But I didn’t have a parachute.”

Eyes widened again. Such an invention didn’t exist among the dwarves or the orcs, and neither Redbeard nor Grukk could think of a more reckless, irresponsible, unsafe thing to do than to fall freely from the sky with nothing but fabric to stop you. Didn’t this human have better things to do?

“I didn’t have a parachute–”

The pair sighed in relief.

“–but our tents were made of the same fabric, so I told Matt to hold my beer, and I cut the damn things into wings from my wrists to my ankles. See, I’ve got pretty long arms, and I figure my wingspan would be enough to catch enough air that I could glide down to the River.”

At this point, both sets of eyes were as wide as dinner plates, and Drea was quite amused by the rapt attention with which they were absorbed. She could hardly blame them.

“An' it worked?” ventured Redbeard the dwarf. Drea, too, was curious.

“Worked?! My friend, it was amazing! It felt like flying! I didn’t even bother swimming! Soon as I landed, I climbed the two-day path back up the cliff and I jumped again!” Drea was the first to break the silence.

“You really are something, aren’t you, Arthur.”

“Human,” said the orc, “you are lucky to be alive. What drove you to such madness? Why threaten your life?”

“Aye. Ar' ye mad, ye dumb bastard?”

“No, not mad. Just bored.”

“Bored?”

Neither man had ever heard of the term. It must have been some sort of madness to drive a human – already with so short a life – to commit to such a danger so readily. They glanced blankly at each other, clearly confused.

“What’s bored?” they said in unison.

“If I may,” said Drea. “I can explain.”

Arthur gestured for her to go ahead, as he drank his ale.

“You see, humans, and especially Arthur here, occasionally enter a state of mind that drives them to do ridiculous things. I daresay it’s a kind of madness, but we’ve been arguing about that for ages. There is a very interesting cause to this madness to which all humans succumb.”

She waited a beat, and watched as both men were swallowing nervously. “It’s caused by a lack of threats in their immediate environment. Humans crave threats, you see. Threats to overcome. And that is why, gentlemen, I stand by his side over yours.”

Thus leaving both men impressed, Drea grabbed Arthur by the arm, and they walked out of the bar together.

“You are extraordinary, you know,” she said, “I’m very glad I met you. You must’ve been mad to approach one such as me, a high elf, so many years ago.”

He kissed her then, smiled, and said “No, not mad, my dear. Just bored.”

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submitted 1 year ago by o_o@programming.dev to c/git@programming.dev

Hey folks!

I've noticed that it's often difficult for newcomers to git to understand what the heck is happening and how the commands work.

Here's a flowchart that has helped me explain things in the past, and (more than once) folks have asked me for a copy of it to use as a cheat sheet. Hope it's helpful!

[-] o_o@programming.dev 2 points 1 year ago

Agreed! This is annoying for me as well, but still I like it a lot. Better than Reddit, even.

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submitted 1 year ago by o_o@programming.dev to c/lemmy@lemmy.ml

Hey folks! Just realized something that makes Lemmy different from Reddit. Because of the federation, your votes are not technically anonymous on Lemmy. At least, I think.

Although there’s no UI to look at a user’s voting history yet, one could conceivably be built by an instance. Perhaps coincidentally, I hear there’s instances out there populated by mostly bots?

o_o

joined 1 year ago