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this post was submitted on 12 Oct 2023
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There is no nuance. If it is necessary, it is justified.
The only nuance that exists is for acts you can create justifications for that aren't necessary.
The only argument to be had is whether an action is necessary or not. If not necessary, then justification is required. Otherwise, they're functionally synonymous.
Bob needed a new heart to survive, but the waiting list was too long.
Bob killed his next door neighbor Jane, cutting out her heart and taking it to a back alley surgeon in order to survive.
Bob was justified in doing this, because whatever is necessary is justified.
I mean that is sort of the definition of justified but it's being misused here, it just means having a good reason. Everyone is ignoring how subjective it is though. Bob may consider his life above others, so for him staying alive is a good enough reason to commit murder. Jane and a jury are very likely to disagree.
Different language needs to be used I think to avoid the issues people have with the concept of violent resistance.
Peace isn't an option because injustice still happens under peace time. Liberation is a better solution for the oppressed.
So now we've got:
Liberation of oppressed peoples from oppression is always justified.
This focuses more on the end goal than the action that resistance implies. Liberation can still involve violent resistance and that's okay. You can be on the side of righteousness and still do what is morally wrong, this is true of all movements.
We have to agree that liberation from oppression is always morally good and we have to apply it to all cases. So if we don't look at the Palestinian struggle the same way we'd look at indigenous issues in north America or apartheid SA, we'd be hypocrites.
You're close to the crux of the issue.
The real issue at hand is whether or not we're talking about moral relativism or absolutism.
If we are endorsing relativism, then all actions have a relative frame of reference by which they are justified (i.e. Bob's killing Jane).
My stance is that in terms of absolutism, there is no such thing as justified mass violence, and that while it is certainly possible for mass violence to be a lesser evil absolutely, and thus easily argued as a moral good relative to the alternative, that ultimately it remains an evil under all circumstances objectively, and at best can be a lesser evil regarded absolutely.
I would have to disagree on the absolutism bit.
I would consider that the Haitian slave rebellion or Warsaw ghetto uprisings were intrinsically good.
I would wish to see liberation of oppressed peoples be a universal law. I would wish for this to be applied to all and I wish for everyone to act on this.
I believe the above fits under Kantian ethics.
Do you include the 1804 massacres of the French with the mass rape of women and killing of children by Dessalines which followed the Haitian revolt in that intrinsic good?
I find it hard to consider that as part of the liberation since it happened after independence. Looks more like state violence aimed at a minority to me.