As someone who couldn't name a single Swift song up until a couple of months ago — From what I read she writes the vast majority of her songs, which is exceptionally rare for pop stars; especially from such a young age... The songs may be simplistic and formulaic, but the lyrics are decent for the age they were written at, and the work ethic and genre jumping is impressive. The most admirable thing about her is how she's screwing venture capitalists by re-recording all the songs she wrote. I hope she starts redistributing all that wealth she's extracting.

Thanks

Thanks, someone else compared her to other pop stars like Michael Jackson and Madonna, and all of those people were at the forefront of their particular movement.

I feel like Taylor Swift is just in the middle of all the other pop stars.

Appreciate it, I'm going to try and look into it from that perspective, maybe I just don't understand the music world at all. I definitely don't.

Don’t forget the money and connections. IIRC her father literally bought(?) or created(?) a label to sign her. There a lot more talented artists out there but she had the money and connections that gave her a very big headstart. Talent can only get you so far in the industry. It’s luck/timing and money/connections that allow you to break through.

A couple people have mentioned her range, but they also only mention her relationship and breakup songs. What else does she sing about that gives her range?

She might not recycle the same tune, but it kinda seems like she recycles the same themes verbatim. I'd say she's closer to Papa John's than a good quality pizza shop. Her music is probably good, but I doubt that it's usually great.

There are, and none with so many awards or the same kind of popularity.

Top athletes are grossly underpaid. Basketball straight up truncates them. Giannis would make at least double on the open market. Football, the best players make the same as second and third tier players at their position, entirely dependent on when they hit FA.

I meant that she’s a Gen Z staple, not that she herself is Gen Z. She is to a lot of Gen Z folks what a Green Day is to older millennials like myself. She’s been around most of my life.

That being said, I do listen to a lot of complex music. I listen to a huge variety of music. Like when people say “I listen to everything”, I actually mean it. I’ve played with bands that range for noise to country to classical to jazz to metal to industrial to electronica. And I will say there are a lot of people, especially in the rock and metal scenes, that seem to think that more is always better. Like bigger, faster, louder, more technical, harder to play…that somehow that makes better music. It doesn’t. Like I can enjoy some Tim Henson, he’s an amazing guitarist. I love me some Buckethead or Les Claypool. But to say that their music is better music because it’s more technically difficult to play is kind of funny.

Let me give you an example. Most people will tell you that “Stairway to Heaven” is a great song. I would agree. The solo at the beginning is iconic. But it’s also not hard to play.

If you want a great example of Taylor Swift that doesn’t make normal play that will help you understand, I would suggest “Snow on the Beach”. Don’t try to pick apart lyrics or music. Relax, and let the vibe of the music roll over you. Once you get the overall vibe, then pick into the music and the lyrics. What Taylor is a master of isn’t amazing lyrics or technical songwriting. She’s a master of a song emoting. Like she sets a mood better than almost any musician I’ve seen. While it’s a more popular song, “Lavender Haze” is another great example of a song that is amazing at describing in music that feeling of being in a new relationship and just not wanting to leave.

I feel like this is kind of a trap question. Everything about this entire thread feels that way - I don’t want it to seem as if I’m attacking you here - and it’s a microcosm of why discussion of Swift is so polarizing. For some reason, she, more than any other artist I can call to mind, is discussed in black and white terminology. There’s almost no middle ground. You need to either love her or hate her.

Does she possess the lyrical genius of, like, Leonard Cohen? I mean, I don’t know. I think she’s pretty great, but back in the day I’d have been stoned to death on r/Music for suggesting they were in the same league.

What I will say is I think she’s as honest as Cohen was, and that’s something the best songwriters all have. I think she writes from an extremely authentic place, and I respect the hell out of that. In recent years, I think co-writing with Jack Antonoff has only further unlocked her potential.

Some examples of hers I think are great - You’re On Your Own Kid, Champagne Problems, and My Tears Ricochet.

Her pop stuff has some great lyricism as well, but pop music as a genre is generally under appreciated for its lyrics. Obviously, not in all cases; there’s a shitload of manufactured garbage out there. But most of the 1989 album is borderline - if not outright - excellent in this regard. It didn’t get any serious attention though until that shitbag Ryan Adams covered the whole thing, and got people to hear the lyrics in a different way.