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this post was submitted on 12 Feb 2024
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politics
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No. Just no. We pressure Biden because we want him to be better. We believe he can be. Trump is a lost cause who should be in prison for attempting a coup.
No, you do it because you're a weaksauce milquetoast coward who goes after the weaker party in a confrontation because you care more about avoiding conflict than you do about what's right.
And you're alienating all of the pro-Palestine people who want a third party, and literally anyone else who wants literally anyone else in office other than those two cretins.
It won't kill you to support something different instead of being a cowardly little weasel for once in your life, I promise you.
three paragraphs and yet you didn't say anything lol
Bruh you okay?
Are you listening at all or are you just looking for a cheap gotcha moment?
Instead of advocating for a third party that can possibly offer us something better, all they have to offer is more of the same or a concentration camp, and neither choice is acceptable.
Hooray! My 3rd party candidate got 9% of the vote! It shows that there is a chance for a 3rd party in the US, assuming democracy survives 4 more years under Republican/Trump executive control.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025
Then all of you find a third party and vote for them instead of Biden. Force the change you want to see in thr world. Until then, get out of my face.
Precisely three third party candidates have won any EC votes in the last century: George Wallace, Strom Thurmond and Robert La Follete. Follete won Wisconsin, and the other two unsurprising only won states in the deep south.
The likely "best case" scenario would be something like the 1912 election, which was essentially a three way race between former Republican president Teddy Roosevelt running third party against the incumbent Republican Taft, and the Democratic challenger, Willson.
Willson won 41.8% of the popular vote, and 81% of of EC vote. Taft got 23% of the vote, and managed to carry Vermont and Utah. Roosevelt got 27% of the vote, and carried 6 states. Eugene Debs didn't win a single state with his 6% of the vote - and its worth noting that the last time a third party candidate did as well as Debs was Perot, back in 96.
A majority of the country voted for a current or former Republican president, yet the election was a land slide for the Democrat in the EC.
Because of the structure of the EC, third parties are either irrelevant protest votes (such as the south protest voting for segregationists) or they blow up in your face. Why would this time be different?
Edit:
One significant problem with a pro-Palestinian third party revolt against Biden is that Democratic support for Palestinians isn't anywhere near high enough for a universal revolt against Biden on that issue. It'd just be begging for a repeat of 1912.
Netanyahu's poll numbers are pretty rock bottom among Democrats, but a majority of older Democrats see Israel as a legitimate state with an unfortunately far right current government that's going too far in their current war against a terrorist organization. They're not looking for a free Palestine that stretches from the river to the sea.
Have you tried coordinating 5 people for a dinner party? Imagine trying to get 75 million people to all agree to switch to one of various third parties?
Biden got the most votes of any president in history. Trump is ranked number two. It is simply a risk we cannot take at this time. If you vote 3rd party in 2024, you are betting your rights, women's rights, non-Christians rights, LGBTQ rights, worker's rights, and the possiblity of ever having free and fair elections on the most hazy of fevered pipe dreams. Anyone who does this a fucking moron. You're out here bitching about how conservative Biden is, when christofascist terrorists have a gun pressed into the back of your head. You can feel morally superior in your ghetto I guess.
Then the left would not have been able to organize at all, yet here we are.
People are moving away from Biden and standing by him is going to cost you the future of this country.
You should probably practice being quiet. In the future you are ushering in, you won't have a right to express opinions. Unless you are a straight white wealthy christian man, in that case, feel free to keep blabbing.
That's what you all tell me to do on Lemmy here, now, when you blatantly refuse to enforce your own rules or reign in your own shitty, authoritarian leadership. You even said to my face that you'll do whatever the hell you want and that's just how the internet works. You ALREADY expect people to just live that way so what makes you think any of your holier than thou grandstanding means anything?
You're probably just butthurt it isn't you running for President.
Oh hey, I think the comment was meant for someone else who was telling you that voting 3rd party when the ability to have free and fair elections is at stake is a sign that you might have a room-temp IQ. I haven't said anything about enforcing rules or doing whatever I want.
Oh hey, I think we were talking about Lemmy users organizing anything meaningful or just politically when they've clearly demonstrated their inability and refusal to do so on their own website.
Now read what I said again. Slowly this time.
Dodge attempt failed. Just pull your comment and take the L.
Criticizing my response instead of directing it is exactly the kind of shit behavior I'm talking about. Thanks for proving me right about you, like you always do.
Your "response" was either a misdirected message or another major indicator of your shortcomings in critical thinking and reading comprehension.
You're batting 0/2, do you really want to go for a third? Just bow out with whatever shred of dignity you have left at this point.
Removed for repeatedly attacking other lemmy users, 3 day ban. We've talked about this before.
Ah, so in an individual conversation, you are now reducing me, and my arguments to the lowest common denominator of all Lemmy users? That's your big comeback? Yet here you are getting upset that I'm not addressing your specific arguments that you didn't even make to me, the other individual in our conversation, in the first place? That's what makes you think that I'm hypocritical, and engaging in bad "American" political discourse?
Would you prefer that I reduce you to the worst things I've seen people say on Lemmy in the same way you are treating me?
You're here doing nothing but criticizing the fact that I am arguing with you instead of thinking about what I said and realizing you simply misunderstood, so yes. You are a perfect example of that lowest common denominator.
You want my opinion to change? Delete your responses to me, apologize to me for wasting my time, and move on.
No, I consider you a lost cause at this point. You're more like a living warning now for other people that might read what you post and initially think it's a good idea.
How about no? At least I made responses to you.
You're the one that keeps coming back for more. Apologize to yourself, delete your posts, and heck, delete your Lemmy account while you are at it. By your own admission, you think that Lemmy is just full of disingenuous clowns. Go on now, git.
Then don't waste my time arguing with me trying to convince me to change my opinion of you, because until you change, and Lemmy itself changes, you're not going to get your way. It's as simple as that.
What are you talking about? I'm getting my way right now. Every unhinged holier-than-thou self-contradicting reply you make emphasizes my position that people voting 3rd party in 2024 are making a dumb knee-jerk decision that is going to hurt themselves and everyone else because they can't accept reality, they can't read the table, and they can't play the hand they have been dealt.
You're not getting your way, that's why you keep talking. Every response you give has been nothing except the ignorant, petty, immature ramblings I've come to expect out of Lemmy. Saying and doing anything to try to win a confrontation instead of sitting down and thinking about what you and your opponent is saying, and that's why I say this is why Lemmy is a perfect sample of America and why therefore America needs to crash and burn.
And you do. And you likely will at the end of the year, and it'll be sad, so sad, but you have brought every single ounce of the consequences you've been building up onto yourselves.
It never occurs to you that your behavior is alienating people away from Democrats and convincing people to vote third party in this next election either, but you don't actually give a shit about the future of your country so of course you wouldn't. 🤷
Not my problem. It's all on you.
See, here you go again....
I am getting my way, and I will keep talking. You're the person here who is frustrated and upset, or at least you write like you are.
I literally gave a link to how republicans have a plan to literally turn the US into a fascist christian state in my first comment. You are the one who is choosing to ignore the actual argument and instead go for purile "nuh uh, you are" antics instead. I'm just willing to engage you on your tactics rather than just give up and walk way like most people do when you spout inane bullshit at them
Are you speaking from experience here? Why don't you actually commit to addressing my point in your next comment; is it worth the extremely high risk that the next Republican president suspends free and fair elections, in order to vote for a 3rd more progressive candidate who has no chance of winning?
Aaaaand that's why you're trying to get people to vote 3rd party, to save America? Or are you trying to burn it? You're very inconsistent with what you want here.
This is quite literally what will happen if less than 10% of current Democrats don't turn out to vote, or vote for a 3rd party in 2024. So are you trying to make this a fascist country? You at least claim to want the opposite, but then you say things like this, without thinking of the consequences or implications.
Wait, isn't that your end goal? Why are you trying to get me to shutdown and delete my posts if I'm helping you? Why are you trying to save America by getting people to vote 3rd party? Once again, your logic is all twisted up. You don't have a consistent opinion. You seem like you're frustrated that everything sucks, and rather that fix it, you just want to yank the steering wheel over and take this bus off a cliff so that you won't be stuck in traffic anymore.
Wait, weren't you just advocating for American to crash and burn? It's sounds like you don't care, or you have an active interest in making sure that it does. Once again, your position is inconsistent.
Yeah, no shit. It's not like you're going to help.
tl:dr, you have no idea what you want, no idea what you are saying, and no idea that I am absolutely skunking you on this public forum.
>you have no idea what you want, no idea what you are saying, and no idea that I am absolutely skunking you on this public forum.
i don't know what skunking is, but i think you look like you're making this way too personal.
You claim to want an honest discussion. Please re-read the comment.
Also, I'm sure you typed your reply on a device that can tell you what it means to skunk someone in just a few seconds, with minimal effort on your part. Your unwillingness to learn when the information is at your fingertips is not surprising at this point. It must be hard and confusing to be you.
>Please re-read the comment.
no, thank you.
At this point, it seems you have confused yourself for someone else.
>You claim
i think you got me confused for someone else
Whoop. Sorry. Didn't think anyone else would reply this far down.
i browse from mastodon. i get all comments reverse-chronologically, absolutely stripped of context. i didn't read this far down. i started with your comment, skimmed it, the one above it, and told you my impression. just chill out.
Neat. Is that useful? To read backwards and reply without context to long conversations?
it's fun. that's my main utility for mastodon/lemmy: entertainment. i don't know i would have chosen to call it useful tho.
Glad you could finally admit your only purpose here is to troll.
that's not what i said
It’s implied. You said you don’t bother reading for context… well, that’s what most mature people do when they discuss things with other adults.
Now I’m going to go ahead and end this discussion right here as I don’t want to be banned/reported for talking to you.
I explicitly said I did look back for context
how did you even find this thread, dozens of comments deep in a 48-hour old post?
The irony of you asking me how I found this thread considering the subject matter.
if the accusation is that I found it because I'm a troll... your participation would seemingly come under the same accusation.
Im done engaging with you. Walk away.
I hope so
Just
Block
Eachothers
Nothing good will come from arguing aimlessly in the comments. It always devolve into ad hominem and incivility between you two.
they claimed to have blocked me over a month ago.
You know, you can block them too, and.. not reply..
I am usually pretty good. I did lose it last night, after their consistent stalking and harassment.
they've started entering conversations just to talk shit on me. i can't believe any admin cares to host them.