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Winning is relative
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this post was submitted on 04 Aug 2023
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If you work in academia, you don't need to learn a new language. English is the working language. Also the 5 weeks of holiday is nice, but what really helps is the working day.
I started as a bioinformatician a month ago. I come in to the office at 0830 have coffee from 09:00 til 09:45 with my boss and colleagues, work a bit, have lunch from 12:00 untill 13:15, work a bit, go home at 15:30. That's my day.
Work in IT.
Start at 9:00
Lunch 13:00-14:00
Go home at 18:00
Commute (if construction does not tear up the main crossing) is around 30min 1-way with bus or a 15-20min bicycle ride.
Experience: About 5 years without college/uni.
It's München time
Entirety of Germany in my experience. Germans love their Baustelle
I think IT might not be as easy as you think. Academia is a bit more open.
IT isn't quite high skilled enough to get in. They'd almost certainly need an employer to say they couldn't find a European to do the job, which is exceedingly unlikely.
I don't know if I quite get what you are saying...
You mean it from the perspective of a US based company?
I think he's saying it's harder to get a work visa taking a job in IT, as the EU company would have to first prove that they couldn't find a European citizen to take the job before they can start hiring foreigners.
It hasn't been my experience though, we hire lots of foreigners on work visas. Many from India and former Soviet countries especially.
Yeah, that's what I was saying.
In Spain we do have non-EU people, but oftentimes they come here, live in Spain "irregularly" at some point, and then manage to get residency through means other than an employer sponsoring them. That might not be the case everywhere though.
I'm not in a big corp so I can just assume:
Do some countries require to proof local citizens are not worthy enough so you need to import work force from abroad?
Yeah, many countries do this. It's common in Europe but the US does it also.
Kinda surprised because you read so much stories about outsourcing workforce to "3rd world" countries in Asia and Africa/S.America.
Outsourcing generally means that you hire a (often foreign) consulting company to do your work for you, instead of having your own employees do it. That's much different from getting an immigrant a work visa and having them work for you.
IT Job I left:
Experience: my soul.
Both of y'all are melting American brains trying to do the math on figuring out what times you're talking about.
Most Americans have no clue that 13:00 is 1:00pm because 12+1 is too difficult, and God help you if you say 22:00, because 22-12 might as well be euclidean geometry.
Maybe you don't need the language for work. But you will need te learn the language eventually for other day to day interactions.
Or the paper works outside of the labs.
Don't know about other countries, but in Norway you always have the option of getting websites and government information in English. Everyone speaks it including cashier's, cleaners etc.
The same thing is not true in Germany and Spain.
Dutchie here, we do the same. Everybody speaks (some form of) English, almost everything is also available in English.
This is true but also keep in mind that Dutch is still leading in most cases. E.g. if you have a contract that's both in English and Dutch, if issues arise the Dutch translation will usually be the one that is followed
Sint Maarten should check-in and tell us about the English-Dutch separation and the class system it all but foments. It's 90% fascinating if 10% disappointing.
The Dutch speak better English than some parts of England.
My experience is purely based on Germany and I hate it even as a native. Plus having ADHD and paper being a chore doesnt help at all...
Also most folks (in my experience of south west Germany) of age >40-50 have little experience with English and can't converse beyond the most basics.
For some reason France really doesn't like giving english (or any other than french) options on their gov sites. Every other country in the eu are fine.
In France, I feel French is heavily a part of their identity; and contrary to Americans fairweather-jeering their best revolutionary ally, the French do not surrender lightly. It feels like that's the one thing even the poorest French person has, and taking away one iota of that will be met with a resistance we've learned to respect.
I would most certainly disagree that every person speaks English. Especially older people don't, but in general many people here do not speak a good english
Oh, I see that I totally forgot to mention I'm from Germany
No, pretty much anyone in Norway can speak English, some don't feel confident in their ability though. But if you ask any rando on the street if they speak English you get the answer of course ".
Scandinavia is absolutely killing it for bilingualism, among so many other ways they're killin' it -- no, really, other countries should just study them for clues in general. My experiences (just Sweden, Denmark and bonus Iceland, so far) is that they say Hej and listen for your "hello", flipping over into beautiful and perfect English without hesitation. Their language programmes are just fucking astounding, really.
Spain's fine in the touristy spots, but Spanish itself is VERY accessible as a language, so it's kinda moot like France.
In Germany I will have to rely heavily on the kindness of strangers as I will never grok the language.
They're exposed to English every day from multiple sources. You aren't allowed into university unless you can read and write English to a high level. Your text books are in English at university and classes open to exchange students are taught in English. All English media is subtitled. And school lessons in English start when they're 6. No mystery, just practice.
never needed german knowledge to do standard burocracy stuff
im in the country for almost 10 years now without speaking a word. not true.
Seven hour day with an hour and fifteen minute lunch. What kind of magic is this? What's the catch?
The catch is that you live in Europe and cops won't beat you to death.
sOcIaLiSm
Those are summer hours. In the rest of the year I'll be expected to work an additional 45 minutes. Officially we only get 30 minutes for lunch, but no-one cares. When our contact in admin is in we keep it to 45 minutes.
30-45 minutes for lunch, where do you live, in the Netherlands?
In France it's 1h30 usually (give or take a bit depending the company).
We take around a hour and a half but we're not officially supposed to.
Well this might be an anomaly but the company I worked for in the Philippines gave you a dedicated hour for lunch and two 15-minute breaks, plus two hours weekly for any of the workshops/learning opportunities they provide.
lol i work a third of that
In what country do you work?
Norge
I work in the public sector. If I start my day at 06.00, I can leave at 14.30 👌 Perfect for me since I am an early riser and the days are slowly getting darker and darker again
Yeah I have flex time, but the daycare doesn't.