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US judge in Texas rules minority business agency must serve all races
(www.reuters.com)
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this post was submitted on 07 Mar 2024
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Honestly I don't understand the problem here. Poverty is a class issue, not a race issue. Who cares what somebody's skin colour is if they need help?
Edit: Apparently calling out racism is controversial in US subs 🤷
It's not controversial, but it is ignorant of the underlying issues. Yes, poverty is a class issue; but it's also a race issue. It's a lot easier for a white person to change their class than it is for a black person (or any person of color). Give a white person a million dollars and they are accepted almost everywhere. Give a black person a million dollars and they are still denied access to opportunities.
If you give two race car drivers the same car and training, but one of them has friends/family who are a fully professional crew to do their pit stops and the other doesn't have any friends who know about cars and has to change their own tires and fill their gas tank, then guess who is going to win that race. If you give those same two drivers the same professional pit crew but one has a shitty car, then guess who is going to win. The problem is unequal starting points requiring unequal assistance to ensure equal ending points. Giving everyone equal access to equipment/training doesn't give equal endpoints if the starting point is different.
Go ahead and breakdown black/white ancestry for me, judge for us who belongs to what race, because America truly is a melting pot, kind of a mess.
Fuck me, I dated a Jamaican woman that had pale(ish) skin and hazel eyes, but seriously tight curls. Black or no? My wife is 50/50 Japanese/Pilipino. Which is she?
Here's a starter guide:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mischling_Test
Quadroons count as black? How about octoroons? 1/16th, uh, roon?
You guys are agreeing. Their analogy is talking about systemic racism and not getting the same treatment.
I get systemic racism and privilege. As a middle-aged white guy, I'm stunned at the privilege, even vs. being a poor young white guy watching blacks get fucked over. Man do I have stories.
But granting government privilege by race sounds kinda messy, given my post, doesn't it?
My point is, we're so genetically mixed, it's getting harder by the day to point to a person and say, "Black!", or anything else. Jo Koy has some hilarious standup about Philippinos being the Mexicans of Asia. If you dropped me in a room with my wife's friends, and put in ear plugs, I couldn't tell!
Anyway, I'm white as fuck, and it's obvious. Maybe I should shut up.
Well if you want an answer, go tell a racist you have a black great grandparent. They subscribe to the one drop theory. But it's also not just about current stuff. It's about the generational trauma too. Just because someone was born lighter than their parents does not erase the difficulty inherent in anything involving their parents. Getting into school, camps, sports, banking, networking, etc.
So white Jews should be beneficiaries of affirmative action in 2024?
Catholics were targets of the Ku Klux Klan. How should they be aided in 2024?
Why? Are you denying then bank loans in 2024? Did you redline them in 1965? Pass criminal sentencing laws meant to destroy their community in 1992? Are you not even looking at job applications with names like Matt and Adam?
None of those things are lawfully happening today towards any immutable traits
The effects of those policies very obviously ripple out today, and many of them absolutely are still in effect regardless. Racism never ended.
Did anti Semitism? If not then why aren't jews also treated as beneficiaries?
Also, native Americans are currently living on apartheid reservation systems. Why don't we ever mention them in these discussions?
I don't know dude. But these problems certainly aren't solved by forcing organizations which exist to benefit minorities into wasting their resources on the majority of people who do not suffer racial discrimination. Obviously.
But jews and Native Americans do. And ethnic whites used to. Why are all of them ignored?
I just said I don't know dude.
Why are you trying to distract from the very racist decision by this judge to waste the resources of an anti racist organization?
If you want to quibble whether certain minorities ought to be included, but aren't, fine. But that has nothing to do with this court's decision, and nobody is going to be helped by it except for racist, conservative whites playing the victim.
Not if they're poor, no.
Also not true. Anyone with a million dollars is going to be more valuable to society than someone without it, regardless of race.
And your comment right here is exactly why this extra help is needed. You have a clear lack of understanding of how the real world works. Ask a person of color how they are treated when they go shopping. Black people in a clothing store will get followed around by workers and even other customers who think they might be stealing. Imagine how it feels to be treated like a criminal everywhere you go, even if you have the money to be shopping there. They have the money, they can afford it, but they still are treated like they shouldn't be there. Hell, my buddy growing up worked at a clothing store and got free clothes to wear during work, and he was still followed around by customers thinking he was stealing. I can tell you that I've never been treated like I shouldn't be in a store even when I clearly couldn't afford to shop there. That's not a class thing, that's a race thing.
Just last year in Los Angeles, not exactly a white-only city, a black person had the cops called on them for trying to deposit a large check at their own bank. The black person was a movie director or something and had a ton of money, including in their account at that bank; but the teller and manager assumed they were a criminal and doing something illegal and called the cops on them.
So tell me again how black people aren't denied access even when they have a ton of money.
You also either didn't read my post or didn't understand what I was saying. I said they are denied access, and you replied they are going to be more valuable to society. I never questioned their value, just what access they are given by society. Access is one of the most important things in life, even more so than money in my mind. You've probably heard the phrase, "it's not what you know, it's who you know." Value is a whole different thing. Slave-owners value their slaves, but they don't treat them like friends.
Because whenever you try to target class, it ends up excluding on race.
Every single time it just so happens that white applicants hoovered up all the available program benefits and NOBODY ever knows why!
Not to mention the racial wealth gap, it is impossible to achieve racial equality so long as the same amount is being given to everyone. All that's doing is maintaining the current wealth gap, it does nothing to close the gap.
Equality will not be achieved until white people can fucking let go of the fact that black folks have to get stuff that white people will not for everyone to be on the same playing field, and that's just economically, we're not even talking about how "just hire the most qualified candidate!" only ever seems to be an issue when the qualified candidate is a PoC.
That's an implementation / corruption issue, then. Fix the root cause, not the symptoms.
Assuming 90% of PoC qualify, and 30% of whites (or whatever the actual numbers are), if everybody has an equal chance at aid based on their wealth, PoC should receive the majority of aid. If that's not happening, I refer you back to point 1.
The root cause is the racism.
Black people are poorer on average because of systemic racism, and they get shut out of benefits not specifically sectioned for them and them alone because of systemic racism.
Poor whites aren't poor because of literal centuries of being treated as literal farm animals, complete with actual husbandry programs when importation became illegal.
Poor whites aren't struggling to find affordable housing because of being specifically excluded from New Deal era housing loans.
Poor whites aren't facing all that on top of being disproportionately likely to just randomly get murdered by the fucking cops.
Poor Whites can afford to sit the fuck down and let the black folks have what was intended for them.
There is no such thing as the White Race. Slavs and Irish are not the same as WASPs.
Yes, so fix the racism. Get rid of the racist officials. Teaching an entire new generation that racism is acceptable if it's against the right colour (sound familiar?) is not the way to go about eliminating racism.
By your logic, they obviously didn't benefit from those policies either. Does it matter WHY they're poor and struggling? Maybe we could just help everybody who's deserving?
Oh my god, why didn’t we think about that? I’m gonna go tell everyone. I’m pretty sure you just fixed everything! Thank you!
Next, I think I’ll just stop being sad so I can stop taking my anti-depressants!
GIven your current idea of the best approach is 'double down on the racism', I felt I had no choice but to start with the basics.
No, all you’ve shown is a profound ignorance of the situation and why affirmative action programs are a part of the solution.
Lifting marginalized communities and peoples by providing them additional support is not racism. Full stop.
Racism has had multi-generational effects. Fixing racism now doesn't eleviate the inequality affecting people whose ancestors were enslaved, beaten, and robbed
Oh, that should be easy.
It's impossible to judge someone's thoughts and reasons for why they do something, but it's easy to enforce a set of rules that makes them do something else.
Do you know what systemic racism is? Do you believe it exists?
I'm a Chinese outside China. Believe me when I say I know very well what systemic racism is. I do not however believe the best way to combat it is by encouraging more discrimination, whoever it is against.
I believe you may think you know what it is, but I don't think you do. Systemic racism is subtle. We likely don't even recognize a good chunk of it yet. Even if we did, a system that assumes equality of opportunity literally systemically perpetuates the effects of racism.
If a scale has $60 on one side and $100 on the other, you will literally never restore the balance by adding money equally on both sides. The best you can do is obscure the imbalance by adding so much money that the scales start to look balanced from a distance.
Now the value of the money means nothing compared to assets (property, denied to minorities historically through policies like redlining), which will hold their value through inflation. Guess who has all the assets? The side that started with $100... so even that doesn't work.
Ultimately, there is no way to restore the balance without the $100 side's feelings getting hurt before because they aren't getting as much. It's not like white folks are being told to move out of their home so a black family can move in. Speaking as a white dude, we can stand to suck it up for a bit.
Systemic racism can be subtle. The Chinese version is blatant. I'm absolutely certain that the previous poster knows quite well what blatant state supported systemic racism looks like, they grew up in such a system. I don't know if that would help or hinder their ability to identify such structures in the subtle ways that the US does it.
Seeing as "white" isn't a race, there is a fundamental problem with your argument.
"Who cares what somebody's skin colour is if they need help?"
Exactly. Helping people is helping people, regardless of who.
Calling out racism? Are you really going to come in here with the affirmative action equals racism line and expect not to get downvoted?
Go look up banking while black and come back and tell me it's just a class issue.
My wife is half Japanese, half Pilipino. So which is she?
Now take that to America. What if a person is half black, half white? The Nazis had some great ideas on breaking this sort of thing down.
Texas already offers help for small business regardless of minority status:
If a society is to properly serve the needs of all it's members then it must recognise that those needs differ, sometimes due to historical and ongoing abuse of certain groups. A one size fits all approach to social services is not going to work. Targeted help is needed and when racism is a factor then that help will naturally reflect the problem.
I was concerned that this comment only had 5 downvotes, but then I saw you'd only posted it 12 minutes ago, so I have faith it will be bombed into oblivion as it deserves.
Targeted corrections to racism are not racism and racism is a separate problem from class. Sorry the demographic massively overrepresented in business and politics might have a few programs not available to them.
This comment didn't age well.
There were 5 downvotes after 12 minutes and thirty something now. That there's a lot of other whiners upvoting doesn't make it a less derision-worthy comment.
Attempting to fix racism with more racism isn't a solution.
What's ironic is these are mostly the same people jumping on Israel for committing genocide after saying 'never again'. The lack of self awareness is stunning.
Oh my god you guys are so far up your asses it's just *chef's kiss*. Yes, whiny white boys are totally like the Palestinians.
You actually said that, read it, and thought "got 'em".
Are you seriously comparing affirmative action with genocide?
A lot of people on these forums don't understand how much they've been indoctrinated, on either side.
Liberals don't care about class, and lemmy is mostly liberals.
Everyone cares about class. Conservatives want to be in the class with privileges and liberals want classes to evaporate.
Liberals are not in favor of class disappearing. You're thinking of socialists. Liberals perpetuate class divide as much as conservatives. Cons are liberals too.
This comment indicates that you don't know what "class" refers to
It refers to how you relate to the means of production. Whether you own the means of production, or whether you work for the people who do.
You are either an owner or a worker; a part of the bourgeoisie or a part of the proletariat.
It has nothing to do with income or decorum
Weird place to swing Marxist.