822
submitted 4 months ago by silence7@slrpnk.net to c/politics@lemmy.world

There really doesn't seem to be any limit to the amount of bribery going on.

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[-] APassenger@lemmy.world 1 points 4 months ago

I've been reflecting on your answer and I keep returning to one point...

In your example the rule in favor of the abortion seeker. As a principled and partial matter, how do these differ from today?

Is your argument that states can and maybe should keep laws around after they've been ruled demonstrably against the Constitution? If so, wouldn't justice only be granted with those with the means to appeal to SCOTUS?

Despite the possibility of tone sounding argumentative, it's not. I think I'm missing something here and I'm trying to figure it out. Thread is old enough I suspect it's just the two of us here anyhow.

[-] ricecake@sh.itjust.works 1 points 4 months ago

Totally happy to have a conversation, particularly since I also have conflicted feelings on the question. :)

So the way review works now, the Court can find a law unconstitutional, which sets a "do not enforce" precedent. The can also hear a case involving executive action, and find an order or act unconstitutional and force the executive to stop.

Neither is explicitly in the constitution, and there's a lot of documentation by the founders about if it should or shouldn't be.

Totally abolishing judicial review would mean the courts would only be able to rule on the law as written and decide court cases without determining the constitutionality of said laws.
I don't think that makes much sense, since deciding questions of law requires interpreting applicable laws, and the Constitution is one of them.
It would also leave Congress to decide if their own actions were constitutional, which isn't great, but also isn't too different from the supreme court, with the perk of public accountability via elections.

I'm more in favor of a reduced judicial review, where the courts wouldn't have the power to restrain the executive or legislative branches, but would have the power to decide cases, set precedent, and determine constitutionality of laws, but not "categories" of law.

In the case of Roe, it would have played out that the Texas law would be decided against Texas, but that wouldn't generalize to invalidating Mississippis similar law. Precedent carries weight, but not the same weight as striking down or invalidating a law.

It cases like "Ohio vs EPA" (Ohio sued the EPA because the EPA said that air pollution that leaves your state is subject to interstate regulation, and set a plan for reducing those emissions. The court ruled that reducing emissions would cause irreparable harm to the states being forced to curtail emissions) the Court would be able to decide the case, but they would not be able to order the executive branch to restrict or change how they execute the clean air act as directed by Congress.

This would have the effect of increasing the number of court cases. Also of making it more difficult to stop an executive whose interpretation of a law with delegated congressional authority is wonky.
It would lessen the courts authority to do things like establish corporate personhood, establish money as speech, or decide the president is (largely) immune from prosecution.

It's a mixed bag. Historically the courts have done much to advance individual liberties and a general progressive sense of justice. But they have also, in deeper history and more recently, done much to hinder it.
The opinion of (some of) the framers of the constitution that entrusting effectively unaccountable power in the trust that a small group of people will remain unbiased, nonpartisan, and objective for the duration of a lifetime appointment is choosing a kind of oligarchy is compelling.
We spend a lot of time as a country hoping that we have a "good" court, and worrying about what they might change about our society in their next ruling, with very little prospect of being able to influence or overrule that decision.
In a democratic nation, people should not have to say "oh, our legal standards for abortion access have suddenly changed, we better find a way to work around the ruling until a new court can flip it" rather than trying to clarify or pass a law, remove the people who misrepresented our wishes in the next election, or take the ruling as a new precedent and not a definitional shift in our legal structure.

There are good arguments for a largely unassailable court that's not beholden to public opinion.
The only other way to make them not an effective oligarchy is to reduce their power.
Anytime power rests with one or a few, you'll have good and bad decisions, depending on the quality of the ruler. Reducing their power reduces both, but it shifts it to more democratic systems, which at least we have feedback on.

At some point while writing this I got an increasingly bad headache and went rambly. Sorry about the wall of text, but hopefully it's an interesting read at least. 😉(Pretend it's not a wink but smile with a migraine wince)

this post was submitted on 05 Aug 2024
822 points (99.3% liked)

politics

19246 readers
3752 users here now

Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!

Rules:

  1. Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.

Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.

Example:

  1. Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
  2. Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
  3. No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
  4. Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
  5. No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.

That's all the rules!

Civic Links

Register To Vote

Citizenship Resource Center

Congressional Awards Program

Federal Government Agencies

Library of Congress Legislative Resources

The White House

U.S. House of Representatives

U.S. Senate

Partnered Communities:

News

World News

Business News

Political Discussion

Ask Politics

Military News

Global Politics

Moderate Politics

Progressive Politics

UK Politics

Canadian Politics

Australian Politics

New Zealand Politics

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS