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A global housing crisis is suffocating the middle class
(english.elpais.com)
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this post was submitted on 30 Sep 2024
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There is no middle class - there is the working class and the exploiter class. People have misidentified a chunk of the relatively better off working class as somehow not part of the working class. Over time the systems of capitalism and the power imbalances at the heart of the non-unionized workplace will eventually reduce better off workers to the lowest common denominator as the exploiter class demands perpetually growing profit that must come at the cost of the working class.
Middle class is, mostly, simply the newfangled term for that portion of the proletariat which isn't lumpen which is now called the precariat. Low-rank petite bourgeois also counts as the same class as it's actually an economical one (petit bourgeois get shafted amply by capital), not political (what with their penchant for temporarily embarrassed millionaire narratives and support of "business-friendly" policies). That worker / petit bourgeois distinction has always been fuzzy and awkward I mean it's not like there's not workers who think like that.
This is posted in lemmy.world so while I appreciate the information I don't think I'm alone in saying that 90% of the terms you wrote might as well be another language entirely (I get that they literally are from another language lol)
If you're making 50k it's hard to be convinced someone making 300k...like your boss...or their boss is "part of your struggle".
Your comment is extremely naive.
No shit, that's the whole point of what he's saying. It's hard to be convinced becuse that's part of the strategy.
There's really only two classes: People with "fuck you" money and people without "fuck you" money.
If you work for your money, you're part of the struggle. If you own for your money, you're part of the problem.
The problem is capital and it always has been. Sure, there's a concerted effort by capital to deflect the anger due to them onto CEOs and the like but we have to be smart enough and worldly wise enough not to fall for it.
But the middle class is those who are able to leverage working for their money to accumulate capital to where they can live off of the proceeds of that owned capital. If you're able to retire, you eventually become part of the ownership class.
There is a shrinking middle class but the actual people in it are those who split their adult lives into eventually retiring on their wealth, accumulated through working.
Thats not not what middle class means.
Middle class generally means people whose incomes are in the middle half (ranging from 40th to 60th percentile to the 20th to 80th).
If you want to pull out your own new definition based on whether their income comes from work or from return on investments, then I'd still point out there's a large number of people who do both, especially when compared across the entire life cycle including retirement. So if you insist on this alternative definition, you still have to account for the big chunk of the population who do both.
I have to admire the brazenness with which you made up your own utterly unfounded definition of the term "middle class" then, immediately after being called out for it, accuse the person who hadn't provided any definition of the term of doing exactly what you had just done.
Thats some advanced level bad faith engagement right there.
Its not my definition. Its a different school of thought that has stood up to scrutiny. It is different to what a lot of people would refer to as middle class and, of course, different again from what you, personally describe middle class to be.
I don't really recognise a middle class but, if one is to exist, it is simply the middle earners of people who work for their money and they're predominantly white collar workers. That's all there is to it. What you described is petite bougouise and may well be middle class but not all middle class people are petite bougouise.
I'm specifically pointing out the problem with the "how they earn income" definition, that it seemingly assumes that the two categories are mutually exclusive, to try to argue that there's no such thing as a middle class They're not. Most people who are in what most would recognize as "middle class" under the traditional definition get income through both methods, especially over the course of their lifetimes.
So even under that definition, which attempts to pretend there isn't a middle class, there is still a middle class: those who have income through both methods, or even hybrid methods (ownership of an actively managed business that allows them to earn money while working but wouldn't earn money without their own labor).
It would be a very small amount, compared to what they earn over their lifetime. The idea that someone is middle class because they've earned a penny in bank interest is absurd.
Or are you planning on coming back with a load of caveats you conveniently left out previously?
The median net worth of a 65-year-old in the United States is about $390k, so the income it produces is generally a modest supplement to social security. At the 75th percentile, which is also generally considered middle class, net worth is about $1.1 million and easily enough to provide a comfortable retirement lifestyle.
No, the idea is that the middle class (defined in the conventional way) spends time in both the "worker" category and the "owner" category.
The ordinary middle class pathway is to work for 30-50 years and then retire on their savings (or a defined contribution retirement plan) or to rely on a defined benefit pension fund that is itself invested in securities, aka capital. This is the baseline expectation of retirement planning for the middle class in the U.S.: the investments/savings provide the cash to live on, while ownership of the primary residence shields the retiree from certain housing costs, or can provide cash flow through a reverse mortgage.
Through the power of compounding, a 40+ year savings plan generally increases its value over time so that the vast majority of the value comes from return on investment rather than invested principal.
If you want specific calculations, we can do that to show that the typical middle class path takes in more than "a very small amount" in their retirement savings/investments.
These details are obvious from my first comment in this thread, that the middle class in the United States works its way into an "ownership class" in time for retirement, through savings/investment. That's exactly what I meant in that comment, and spelling it out makes it pretty clear what I meant at that time, and that I haven't shifted my position in this thread.
But some who has earned a penny in interest has spent time as both worker and owner.
Its not that you've shifted it. I agree there. Its that your using sweeping terms that include things like earning a penny in interest that, in order to not sound ridiculous, has to have caveated to a point that:
No, the idea is that the middle class (defined in the conventional way) spends time in both the “worker” category and the “owner” category.
Doesn't reflect where it ends up at all.
Also, its not the conventional way. You 100% made that up and what you're describing is petite bougouise.
From wiki
I'm not talking about people who only make a small amount of interest or investment return over the course of their lifetimes. I'm talking about people who are already unambiguously middle class (between 25th and 75th percentile incomes), who end up relying on investment income to provide most of their retirement expenses.
I'm talking about people with half million dollar 401(k)s that return hundreds of thousands over the course of a retirement. Some of it is principal but most of it is gains/return/interest.
Basically if you're able to retire in America, you're an "owner" for those decades. Yes, there are people in America who can't afford to retire, but most people in the middle class can.
Defining the middle class as middle incomes is pretty conventional. I think you've misunderstood my description of the middle class (people who fit the definition generally have income from both work and from investment) as a definition.
So let me be perfectly clear:
And hey, I was gonna let it go but it's clear your autocorrect has now adopted it as a new word it will happily let you spell wrong repeatedly: it's spelled petit bourgeois, or petit bourgeoisie for plural.
Again, if you want to make up your own definition of middle class, then you're right.
By everyone else's, you're not.
The rest is just noise.
Using your logic... if you're making 50k, it's hard to convince someone making $20k is part of the struggle.
You really think people who make $300k are out there buying lambos and eating fine dining every night?
I was reading a finance book from 2024 talking about "The middle class" and included things like they use check cashing places, loan stuff from rent-a-center, and then struggle to pay for food. The author is a financial "expert".
Middle class was the owning class in feudal societies, the emergence of the working class and rule of law kind of deleted the status of the aristocracy and largely pushed the aristocracy and middle class into the owning and ruling classes.
Yep. I’ve never been middle class though I’ve done better than some. I am not really successful in the traditional sense.
Sure, they are technically part of the working class, but they're similar to cops. Cops aren't the owning class, they take down a salary, but they're also class traitors.
The middle class - aka professional managerial class - as a group fulfill a similar role of keeping the rest of the working class in line in exchange for certain privileges. They just use paychecks and memorandums rather than guns and laws.
Also like cops, they provide an ideological shield for capitalists. Cops are overtly the "thin blue line" between "order and chaos". The middle class are a shield for aspirations. People are encouraged to identify as middle class so they think they have something to lose if they were to upset the status quo.
So it makes sense to identify this group, but too often it's as a shield. Like the implication in this article that a housing crisis for the middle class is a huge problem, but who cares about the housing precarity that's existed in the working class since its inception? Well one reason it would be a big problem for the ruling class is that they would lose their buffer. If it's just lords and serfs and a sharp distinction between them, then overturning the whole thing is a lot easier to contemplate.
I get where you're going with this, and yeah, the PMC helps hold the current system in place. I was thinking about the cybersecurity/engineers/architects/other better paid workers who are still subject to class exploitation even though they're better off than a line cook.
Also, I like your bit about the professional managerial class being an ideological shield - I see that happening in the workplace all the time where people won't consider rocking the boat because they want to be management one day.
I thought I'd have to explain this part - the technical knowledge workers are also managerial, but in a more indirect way.
All three of the professions you listed make decisions about the function of the systems that workers use every day. They are responsible for taking the policy decisions that are made to serve the owning class, and giving those policies shape.
They literally design our environment, and as the Well There's Your Problem podcast points out, engineering and other technical decisions are political. The preferences of the bosses are built into them.
I guess this is pretty unpopular though. I guess there are a lot of knowledge workers on this platform and they don't like being compared to cops.
I believe I'm one of those knowledge workers. I do cybersecurity and I'm actively working on trying to unionize the sector. I'm not management, and I don't have hiring or firing power, and I'm reliant on wages to survive.
Actually, I can see the comparison. Many cybersecurity people don't challenge the power relations in their workplace and instead act as enforcers of corporate policy. That always disappoints me, and I can see the pattern of how even our relative privilege is being actively reduced. I just hope more cybersecurity people will recognize the class struggle we have to wage and organize in solidarity with the rest of the working class.
With your username I'm not surprised you're in cybersecurity lol.
And I never said all managers are bastards. I said that they act that way as a group.
Ultimately the incentive structure reinforces PMC workers who toe the company line. It could never be any other way in a capitalist framework. Yes, it's possible for knowledge workers to operate outside capitalist organisations, but they are going to have a harder time with less money. The bulk of the work will always be done where the money is. You see this very clearly in FOSS circles - the work involves people who are either too tired from their 9 to 5 to put a lot of effort in, they're the sort of person who can't work in a capitalist org, or they're paid by a capitalist org which will have certain demands on their work. The result is that FOSS tends to be rough around the edges which inherently reinforces the belief that only top-down capitalist structures can make polished software.
You'll find knowledge workers in general are going to be hard to unionise. They are better compensated and privileged so they have more to lose, and they have to adopt the ideology of their bosses to some extent in order to reproduce it in their work. We've seen union action with actors and writers for a long time, and it seems to be bleeding over from them into the videogame space. I hope it will keep spilling over into other technical spaces, but I don't think we can rely on that happening to fundamentally change the character of that class.
I've seen that reinforcement of workers who toe the line first-hand, people are scared and brainwashed into not acting up or demanding better. It's why I have a hard time maintaining a job - not because I'm not good at what I do, but because I'm bad at pretending to buy into the capitalist ideology in the workplace.
Agreed, not all managers are bastards but the system they are working within creates horrible results.