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Not voting for genocide, explained
(lemmy.nz)
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this post was submitted on 19 Nov 2024
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TBF, the first two choices would have to be "a lot of genocide" and "much much more genocide".
If Kamala had been elected, the left would have been free to slam her on the Gaza issue, AND she would have been free to break from Biden and say "fuck you" to Netanyahu. She had to toe the line during the election and so did we. Once the election was won, we could have rallied. We'd have been united finally, and she wouldn't have needed Biden anymore. Now instead of pressuring a sympathetic president to end a genocide, we have to arm ourselves to die fighting a fascist president. There is no more path to less genocide. That path closed. All three genocides are gonna happen.
Zelensky is now trying to arm his country with nukes because he knows he can't rely on America. Drag is talking to politicians in drag's country about refugee visas for America. We're all getting ready for mitigation and survival. We could have all been focusing on the Gaza issue instead. We could have done something.
So much cope in this comment.
Sorry, were you around for the past several elections? Perhaps the 2020 elections where, upon the progressives banding with Biden to get him elected with the expectation that we would be able to "push him to the left", the Democratic party decided that the reason they didn't win more seats was because Progressives had damaged their chances of winning, and they must be marginalized. Or perhaps the 2016 elections where, the target of a long running hate campaign was preferred by the party over the popular progressive candidate who was then blamed for his supporters not being won over. Or the 2012 elections where the incumbent Democrat failed to deliver on progressive policies and was a high water mark for drone strikes, but progressives helped bring the win over the candidate Republicans weren't excited for.
I voted for Harris in hopes that she'd beat out Trump despite how much she and Biden before her discarded progressive policy. I was under no expectation of Progressives being able to do a damn thing to reach her.
Don’t forget the DNC tried and failed to ratfuck the 2008 primary in favor of Hillary as well!
Your comment is complete fantasy. Nothing would change under Harris.
And will change drastically under Trump, just not in a good way.....
What’s gonna change? We’re gonna magically stop supporting fascist imperialism?
The US has been at war for all but like seven years of it’s existence. We live in a false “democracy” where people are given the illusion of choice when in reality we are like a capitalist version of the USSR. The corporations run the state.
Lol, the American system is hot shit, but it's not quite yet a fascist empire. That's like a German socialist in the 30's claiming that the Weimar Republic is fascist, so you might as well vote for Hitler.
That's not how fascism is defined....... If it was, the fucking Soviets would be fascist.
And your solution is to give away what little control we are allotted to a politician who wants to make it all worse?
How are you helping this scenario at all? What mutual aid are you giving, what support network are you organizing. Seems to me you're just whining about it all while actively making it worse.
We’ve been fascist since our founding. What do you think manifest destiny was? Where do you think hitler got his ideas from? He was greatly inspired by our treatment of native Americans and blacks.
Im involved in my community. I refuse to pay back my student loans, I refuse to pay federal taxes. I’ve campaigned for candidates before only to see them steamrolled by the DNC.
Electoralism and democracy are failures. This isn’t a democracy and you take way too much comfort in your illusion of choice.
Lol, something can be bad without being fascist. Words have meaning.
Colonialism.
Italy, America, Prussia, Britain, Napoleonic France, the Russian colonization of the east..... it's almost like this is a nuanced subject or something.
Lol, the refusing to pay federal taxes either means.....you are lying (most likely), you don't have a job, or you will eventually be going to federal prison. My money is you are lying.
And bitching online has been real successful for you?
If you've given up on nonviolent means, why aren't you organizing a violent revolution?
What an edge lord. I've never seen someone be so proud of doing less than nothing.
I'm guessing that you, like everyone else who was comfortable voting third party...... Are young, white, and male. The specific group that has no skin in the game, so they really don't see how things can get worse. In fact, I'm sure you'll have even more rights to do nothing with once Trump is elected, good for you.
Must be nice to be privileged enough to not even engage in harm reduction.
If you think we couldn't have persuaded Kamala to drop Israel's funding, if you think there's absolutely nothing we could have done to help Gaza under any circumstances, then why make Gaza your single issue? You're the one who says there's nothing we could have done. Fine, then you should have continued to do nothing for Gaza, left the fighting for Gaza to us lot, and tasked yourself with preventing the other two genocides Trump was planning on.
The dems getting their asses handed to them and rightfully so across the board should force them to do some deep soul searching, and rile up their out to brunch blue no matter who supporters into giving a shit since they clearly haven’t for the past four years.
Liberal tears are tasty coming from a leftist sick of liberal bullshit. Just this time! Most important election ever! Gotta save democracy! After my team gets in I’ll push them left! so fucking exhausting listening to liberals. LMFAO if you think the left believes that if Kamala won youd be pushing her left. Where were you the last four years?!
Lol, and you accuse others of fantastical thinking? When has that ever worked?
The last time this happened is when the democratic leadership pulled together to bump Bernie for Clinton. When Clinton lost to trump, did the Dems do some soul searching and go further left?
Brb, gonna elect a fascist to get those liberal tears....
You're not a leftist, you're just a contrarian fuckwit that doesn't understand basic organization and mutual aid.
If you were anything but an armchair leftist, you would have a basic understanding about the importance of popular fronts in leftist history. Some of the most important organizing that allowed leftist governments to come to power in the past have been when leftist anarchist, and yes even the working and middle class, all came together to present a unified front against fascist.
Nope, I expect absolutely nothing to change. The democrat party is working exactly as designed. A foil to the left and a lapdog to corporations and the military industrial complex. They fundraise off losing. See roe vs Wade for a great example of democrat party cynicism and failure to do anything except lose and beg for money. We live in a one party system with false choices. It’s theatre.
History shows that the liberals gladly work with the fascists. See Nazi germany for an example of capitalists fucking over the left and ending up with fascism. Because to social democrats and liberals, protecting class interests supersedes protecting lives.
Okay, so you were speaking dishonestly before when you were attempting to validate your opinion?
That's simply untrue. First of all, domestically the parties vary immensely in policy ranging from healthcare, labour, race, and gender. And while I would agree that for the most part Dems and Republicans generally agree in foreign policy, that is not always the case.
The most relevant being how they interact with Iran. The whole reason Israel felt comfortable with doing an ethnic cleansing is because the Trump administration ended the Nuclear agreement. Israel's motivation isn't just to commit a genocide, but to rope America into an all out war with Iran.
Some liberals will, some liberals won't. The idea is to sway the liberals into a popular front with leftist against fascist. You know the thing that kept fascism from spreading to France after Italy and Germany.
Except there are dozens of examples throughout history that negate that argument.....
Where do you think leftist come from.......? There is no other choice than to work with liberals, as that is how leftist are created. The vast majority of leftist were liberal at one point, even the fucking Soviets started with a popular front.
If we blanket reject working with liberals for common goals, there is no one to recruit from. It's almost like mutual aid is a central tenet of leftist organization....
Please actually read a book at some point and stop regurgitating bad leftist takes from fucking tick Tok.
Nothing will change because the democrats protect capital. What they will do is clamp down harder on the left while ratcheting further to the right. I refuse to vote for them because they refuse to learn. this country isn’t gonna be a country for much longer.
The dems don’t materially differ from the republicans even under domestic issues. Healthcare? Obamacare is Romneycare! Abortion rights? They cynically fundraised off it and fucked us over. They promised to codify it, had all of congress under their control, and refused. labor? Biden sent the striking railroad workers back to work (nice non American spelling there, I see you know a whole lot not being American yourself). Race? Why did they lose more minorities than ever to the republicans? And they lost on affirmative action and DEI initiatives. Gender? You mean how they let republicans dictate their policies re trans people? Or how they fucked women over on abortion? A whole lot of empty promises but do keep being their water boy, non American.
You think the dems don’t wanna bomb Iran too? LOL. So long as John Bolton is alive there’s a damn good chance we’ll be bombing Iran regardless of who’s running the show.
I don’t have tik tok, your spelling shows you’re not American and don’t live here or understand how hard were suffering under inflation while the biden admin gaslights the shit out of us.
Liberals have always shit on leftists and can’t be trusted.
I enthusiastically hate trump, but believe it or not I trust him over biden when it comes to avoiding WW3. I think being anti war is one of the few real beliefs trump has had, and as a (former) NYer I’ve been paying attention to his antics long before he went into politics. He was deeply critical of the war on terror and that criticism appears genuine.
These are some good arguments, you should go to Washington and present them to the DNC. This isn't Washington, this isn't the DNC, this is Lemmy. We're not the Democratic leadership, we're just a bunch of anarchists. And we don't buy your argument that you're not responsible for the consequences of your own decisions because a democrat is to blame. You should have done the right thing even if the Dems did the wrong thing. Instead, they did the wrong thing, and you decided to do the wrong thing too. You think you get a free pass because there's someone else to blame for your actions. You don't.
LOL. An “anarchist” advocating voting for genocidal shitlibs. Thanks for the laughs.
The only thing of use going to Washington would be to hang most of the politicians. They only listen to their corporate donors, and I am not a corporate donor. Keep dreaming about “pushing them to the left”. LMFAO!
Anarchists notably are ok with a little genocide if it means the capitalist establishment can keep on limping along
Not me! This pretend “anarchist” is a joke.
LOL no. The democrats are entirely supportive of israel despite the occasional virtue signaling. I don't understand why people would put Kamala on a pedistal and say maybe she's different.
This is not how real life works.
She's not sympathetic to anyone. You don't become president out of love and good vibes. The options were either vote for nothing to change or vote for trump to make everything worse, yet people post fanfiction on how the US will suddenly be a utopia and we just need to give the dems one last chance
The difference is that there are democratic representatives that are supportive of the Palestinian people. Unless you are claiming the Rashida Talib is just virtue signaling her Palestinian ethnicity.
Says the person who voted third party in a two party system......
No shit, but she is sympathetic to her hold on power. If there is enough noise to challenge her hold, she very well could have had a "change of heart".
It's called harm reduction, no is expecting any US political party to solve the countrys problem. Some of us just don't want to live through a fascist regime.
Yeah, drag knows that's not how real life works. In real life, y'all decided fuck left unity, let's have a fascist president and make it every queer for themselves. So now we're making plans to help our loved ones free the country. You think we have time to go to the Gaza rallies when we're worrying about concentration camps? We could have all been at the pro-Gaza rallies. We could have marched, blocked the streets, lit up the media. We don't have time for that now, we're putting our own oxygen masks on first. We could have done something. This was preventable.
Liberals aren't left. Fuck off with your "left unity" bullshit, if you really wanted that you would've pressured Biden and Harris to move farther left and attract more left voters. I bet you spent your time calling people against genocide in Gaza Russian bots instead
They’ve been out to brunch for four years and any criticism of the democrat party is Russian bots.
Sounds like that since you didn't get the opponent you wanted you are able to lay down the resistance.
I wonder how far that fight would have gone if Holocaust Harris had won lol
Lol, the brainworms are very strong in this one.
This is why no one takes you seriously.
It would of gone just as far as it had under biden. The liberals have been out to brunch for four years, and under Harris, they would of been out to brunch for another four years. Maybe under trump they might actually do something besides ineffectual marching around with signs and pussy hats.
You're willing to burn lives to try and win an argument. This is psychopathy
And the vote blue no matter who no matter how much genocide isn’t?
Drag voted for less genocide. You voted no preference on genocide. And you think that gives you the moral high ground, because less genocide is still genocide.
You can’t kill people twice. It’s the same amount of genocide and you’re just deluding yourself so you feel better about your choices. Instead of demanding better candidates, since you and the rest of the vote blue no matter who crowd has been out to brunch for the last four years.
This is an interesting look into your mind. Do you really think they'll be the same? Trump will accelerate hit since he doesn't even pretend to care, is that the same? He'll also attack more minorities domestically, killing many more people, is that the same?
I guess in a black and white worldview those are basically the same, but 'cmon, we can have some nuance here.
You’re assuming he’ll accelerate. We don’t know what he will do. Chances are it will be more of the same - funding and arming Israel’s genocide while saying there’s no money here at home for broadly supported policies like universal healthcare.
No change from what the democrats are already doing. And this idea of “genociding harder” that shitlibs are bleating about - trump cant kill those who’ve already been killed under biden.
Who’s he attacking domestically that the democrats aren’t already? Their support of trans rights is a joke. Their support of immigrants is a joke. They wanna defund the police yet elect a prosecutor make it make sense. The democrats don’t have any platform other than “we’re not trump”. So all we can expect is more of the same failed policies.
The republicans being no better is not the flex you think it is.
And the third choice would have to be "I'm fine with either"
Last two choices are the same.