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this post was submitted on 17 Dec 2024
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Yeah, Turkey has never liked the Kurds
Everyone in the region seems to fear the formation of a Kurdish state. :(
So much that Kurds can spend 24/7 assuring they only want autonomy within some provinces, and every neighour still has nightmares of an independent Kurdistan...
...which, to be fair, they should have got - when the Ottoman empire fell apart - but everyone kind of forgot them.
Less "forgot" and more "decided by European powers that it wasn't up to anyone non-white to be in charge." At least not in the British and French Mandate areas.
Hard to trust the kurdish rebel when they are supported by Israel and the US. My fear is that they will become another protection for Israel
Which is kinda weird since they're all NATO buddies with Turkey. Friend of a friend?
Turkey seems like a pretty bad ally recently - Finland and Sweden being delayed joining because of their Kurd genocide obsession comes to mind
No worries the US reliably abandons the Kurds the second it doesn't need them. Every time.
More like never liked terrorist supporters.
Turkey's population consists of roughly %18 kurds, claiming Turkey doesnt like them would be an outrageous claim considering they are citizens of the country and their votes make a significant impact in the selection of the governing parties.
They have pushed the government enough to try out a peaceful resolution against the PKK, only for PKK to bomb trap civilian buildings while the peace negotiations were going on. After that whole ordeal, a significant amount of the Kurds in Turkey see PKK as a terrorist organization that does more harm than good.
SDF is pretty much a sidearm PKK located in Syria, and it's pretty understandable why Turkey doesn't want them right next to their border.
I am not the best person to characterize the situation, but...
...it seems that Turkish authorities have always felt very threatened by any ideas of Kurdish autonomy (even cultural autonomy). Domestically, they have been locked in a fight with PKK, that is true. But in recent times - since the civil war started in Syria - they have great difficulty telling PKK apart from YPG. One is an underground terrorist organization, the other is a uniformed military. But when the PKK does something, very often as a result - YPG get bombed.
On the brighter side, Turkey has had a president of partly Kurdish ancestors (Turgut Özal). But the darker side of the coin is: he died of poisoning right before he could negotiate for peace with the PKK.
I have a guess. When Turkey starts approaching peace with PKK, either PKK members commit an act of terror to break down negotiations, or Turkish special services kill their own negotiator. Because both organizations contain people who - tragically - think that peace would not be good for their business. Their business is war and they don't want it entirely stopped.
I hope I'm wrong - or that I have gradually become wrong as times have changed.
They are threatened, look at the Wikipedia page for the current Kurdish party, and then check the past parties and what they have been accused of
If anything is a plus, making 20% of the nation a direct enemy is never good so they have never gone beyond banning parties with plausible reasons, they have always been able to reform them back again and the Kurdish language has been preserved and culture deeply integrated.
Wow, so many lies.
can't fucking live next to Kurds for shit foreigners think I'm lying
How can there be Kurds in Turkey if Kurds don't even exist? And this is not a thing of the past, school books denying an independent identity of Kurds were printed as recently as 2021.
Turks do happen to suck at acknowledging their genocides. The Armenian is often spoken about outside of Turkey, everyone always forgets the Kurds.
This is outright misinformation. Kurds are specifically mentioned in history classes as in "ethnic groups that lives in various regional areas of Turkey", I recall this from my college times, roughly 2016.
There is nowhere close to a genocide against Kurds considering the amount of Kurds that live there; however Turkey has every right to stop a extremist rebellion idea that would make it lose territory and distrupt the unity between its citizens.
So you deny the existence of those newer school books? Do you deny that the Kurdish language was outlawed for a very long time which constitutes genocide on its own, do you deny the various forced relocations and massacres the Turkish army committed against Kurds before the PKK was even founded? Decades before?
You might have heard the term "Kurd", yes, but chances are you also learned stuff like "Kurdish is a Turkish dialect" (Kurdish is not even part of the same language family), "Mountain Turk", "Atatürk did nothing wrong", etc.
Kurdish language is still outlawed in official mediums, similar to all languages except Turkish and English. While this does not ban individuals speaking it (as in, an syrian can speak arabian within their circle; or a kurd can speak kurdish), this does ban its usage on billboards, signs and any government related documentation. That's pretty much how this goes in rest of the countries.
Kurdish wasn't mentioned under language families, but the language family behind Turkish (Ural-Altaic) is diven more deeply into compared to other families (which are given less examples of), and dialects of Turkish are explicitly stated, so it's a logical conclusion they're not a part of it.
Ataturk did nothing wrong. Turkey's foundation times had seen quite a lot of revolt attempts and conflicts were unavoidable to stop them.
Sure conflict becomes unavoidable if you're brutally repressing your minorities. The minorities don't tend to like that. The whole idea to found Turkey as a nation state while simultaneously claiming non-Turkish inhabited territories was bound to lead to conflict, and yes that's all Atatürk. Small minorities can be incorporated in such a project, kinda like mascots, larger ones? Forget it. They must go, or the project must go. Turkey opted for the former.
How about his (adopted) daughter, personally bombing civilians? Tens of thousands massacred, and you stand here and say "nothing wrong"? Nothing, whatsoever? Not even a tiny bit?
Not even a tiny bit. Ataturk's ideals are based on national unity regardless of what ancestry you're from, which I sympathise with. Instability on a country's leadership creates conflict; as we saw on Syria.
Population count in Dersim makes the claim "tens of thosands massacred" impossible, as 1935 population count was 101,099 and 1940 population count 94,636. If we add in the people fleeing the region; the estimated death count there is supposed to be near 2500 within the whole ordeal.
Considering Turkish aviation technology around that era, it's tough to imagine Turkey having the means to kill tens of thousands of people with a single aircraft operation. For comparison, Bombing of Dresden in 1945 was made with 2000 military aircraft at the top of their technology has killed 25.000 people. How realistic is it for one pilot to kill tens of thousands of people?
Turkish documents, and Erdogan himself, admit 13806 dead and 11683 displaced. And no it wasn't all a single aircraft operation, it's just that his daughter was a pilot and personally dropped bombs. Not that she, personally, killed all the Kurds that died.
He knows better, hes just laying down the required denialism so that his government can conduct another genocide.
"Since the conflict began, more than 40,000 people have died, most of whom were Kurdish civilians.["
"Turkey has depopulated and burned down thousands of Kurdish villages and massacred Kurdish civilians in an attempt to root out PKK militants."
"The initial reason given by the PKK for this was the oppression of Kurds in Turkey.[81][82] At the time, the use of Kurdish language, dress, folklore, and names were banned in Kurdish-inhabited areas.[83] In an attempt to deny their existence, the Turkish government categorized Kurds as "Mountain Turks" during the 1930s and 1940s.[83][84][85] The words "Kurds", "Kurdistan", or "Kurdish" were officially banned by the Turkish government.[86] Following the military coup of 1980, the Kurdish language was officially prohibited in public and private life until 1991.[87] Many who spoke, published, or sang in Kurdish were arrested and imprisoned"
Ethnic cleansing is killing off the majority of a population solely because of their ethnicity. Turkey has sent various ambassadors to get as many civilians possible to not get involved in the revolts and helped them relocate; then used the army to surpress the revolt movement. How does this constitute as ethic cleansing?
"Kurdistan" refers to an imaginary territory claim inside Turkey, it is obvious why the term is banned. It promotes a seperation idea in a country built with the idea of national unity.
"Kurdish" and "Kurd" were never banned, however referring to PKK as these terms are. Terrorist groups do not represent the entire view of the Kurds as a whole; it would be the equivelant of calling al quada as Arabs.
Restriction of speaking Kurdish was never applied to private life. It's restricted in public displays and official documentation; in a similar manner to every country enforcing their home language. However 80s coup were significantly different times; as even mosque prayer calls were forced to be said in Turkish at that time. It's possible at that time this was enforced more harshly, and that's fair. No one looks back at those times with fond memories.
Lol, he wasn't saying there was only one plane.
Plus, turkey was able to kill hundreds of thousands of Armenians just a decade or so before the 30's....... That's unless you are denying the Armenian genocide of course.
I'm not saying that either. I'm saying the fleet Turkey had back in the day wouldn't be big enough to cause ten thousands of casualties by themselves.
What do you think it was all done at once, or that planes are single use items?
Muhsin Batur, engaged in massacres for about two months over Dersim, stated in his memoirs that he wanted to avoid talking about this part of his life.[57][better source needed] Kurdish leader Nuri Dersimi claimed that the Turkish air force bombed the district with poisonous gas in 1938.[58]
"Since the conflict began, more than 40,000 people have died, most of whom were Kurdish civilians.["
"Turkey has depopulated and burned down thousands of Kurdish villages and massacred Kurdish civilians in an attempt to root out PKK militants."
"The initial reason given by the PKK for this was the oppression of Kurds in Turkey.[81][82] At the time, the use of Kurdish language, dress, folklore, and names were banned in Kurdish-inhabited areas.[83] In an attempt to deny their existence, the Turkish government categorized Kurds as "Mountain Turks" during the 1930s and 1940s.[83][84][85] The words "Kurds", "Kurdistan", or "Kurdish" were officially banned by the Turkish government.[86] Following the military coup of 1980, the Kurdish language was officially prohibited in public and private life until 1991.[87] Many who spoke, published, or sang in Kurdish were arrested and imprisoned"
Ethnic cleansing is killing off the majority of a population solely because of their ethnicity. Turkey has sent various ambassadors to get as many civilians possible to not get involved in the revolts and helped them relocate; then used the army to surpress the revolt movement. How does this constitute as ethic cleansing?
"Kurdistan" refers to an imaginary territory claim inside Turkey, it is obvious why the term is banned. It promotes a seperation idea in a country built with the idea of national unity.
"Kurdish" and "Kurd" were never banned, however referring to PKK as these terms are. Terrorist groups do not represent the entire view of the Kurds as a whole; it would be the equivelant of calling al quada as Arabs.
Restriction of speaking Kurdish was never applied to private life. It's restricted in public displays and official documentation; in a similar manner to every country enforcing their home language. However 80s coup were significantly different times; as even mosque prayer calls were forced to be said in Turkish at that time. It's possible at that time this was enforced more harshly, and that's fair. No one looks back at those times with fond memories.
No it is not. An ethnic cleansing is just the mass expulsion or killing of an ethnic group.
Obviously your policy or your ambassadors are terrible.
Lol, the first thing that the nation did was a genocide......it's almost like your society didn't live up to it's own ideas or something.
Evidence? Because the humans rights violations against the Kurdish people predate the PKK by decades...
"Since the conflict began, more than 40,000 people have died, most of whom were Kurdish civilians.["
"Turkey has depopulated and burned down thousands of Kurdish villages and massacred Kurdish civilians in an attempt to root out PKK militants."
"The initial reason given by the PKK for this was the oppression of Kurds in Turkey.[81][82] At the time, the use of Kurdish language, dress, folklore, and names were banned in Kurdish-inhabited areas.[83] In an attempt to deny their existence, the Turkish government categorized Kurds as "Mountain Turks" during the 1930s and 1940s.[83][84][85] The words "Kurds", "Kurdistan", or "Kurdish" were officially banned by the Turkish government.[86] Following the military coup of 1980, the Kurdish language was officially prohibited in public and private life until 1991.[87] Many who spoke, published, or sang in Kurdish were arrested and imprisoned"
I'll post the same thing the last time you tried covering up your government's history of ethnic cleansing.
"Since the conflict began, more than 40,000 people have died, most of whom were Kurdish civilians.["
"Turkey has depopulated and burned down thousands of Kurdish villages and massacred Kurdish civilians in an attempt to root out PKK militants."
"The initial reason given by the PKK for this was the oppression of Kurds in Turkey.[81][82] At the time, the use of Kurdish language, dress, folklore, and names were banned in Kurdish-inhabited areas.[83] In an attempt to deny their existence, the Turkish government categorized Kurds as "Mountain Turks" during the 1930s and 1940s.[83][84][85] The words "Kurds", "Kurdistan", or "Kurdish" were officially banned by the Turkish government.[86] Following the military coup of 1980, the Kurdish language was officially prohibited in public and private life until 1991.[87] Many who spoke, published, or sang in Kurdish were arrested and imprisoned"
This guy is just a rabid ethno nationalist.
Ethnic cleansing is killing off the majority of a population solely because of their ethnicity. Turkey has sent various ambassadors to get as many civilians possible to not get involved in the revolts and helped them relocate; then used the army to surpress the revolt movement. How does this constitute as ethic cleansing?
"Kurdistan" refers to an imaginary territory claim inside Turkey, it is obvious why the term is banned. It promotes a seperation idea in a country built with the idea of national unity.
"Kurdish" and "Kurd" were never banned, however referring to PKK as these terms are. Terrorist groups do not represent the entire view of the Kurds as a whole; it would be the equivelant of calling al quada as Arabs.
Restriction of speaking Kurdish was never applied to private life. It's restricted in public displays and official documentation; in a similar manner to every country enforcing their home language. However 80s coup were significantly different times; as even mosque prayer calls were forced to be said in Turkish at that time. It's possible at that time this was enforced more harshly, and that's fair. No one looks back at those times with fond memories.
So you're either denying the Armenian genocide, or you acknowledge that your government can and has done genocide, but for some reason are giving them the benefit of doubt for the Kurdish people?
Is everyone in Turkey so stupid, or are you just an active participant in the future ethnic cleansing?
The Kurds in Turkey are policed by the military, not allowed to speak their language, and largely forced to the bottom of society. They're treated worse than the Isrealis treat the Arabs who legally live in Israel proper. We've also seen what military reprisals look like in Turkey and Northern Iraq.
The Turks never wanted peace. They wanted Genocide but the Kurds armed themselves.