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Churches close their doors as fewer Americans attend
(abcnews.go.com)
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this post was submitted on 29 Dec 2024
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The risks of what? The risk of not returning to the dark ages where we damn near all believed the imaginary writings of goat herders and killed for that?
Thanks, no thanks, I love that risk.
I think the risk more is the bad theology and idol worship that American Christianity is becoming. It’s sorta like how almost all mega churches are “non denominational.” There’s not a commitment to an actual ideology or set of religious beliefs, it’s become a strange cult fixated on Trump. It’s more dangerous in some ways because it’s less predictable. Being a “Christian” has nothing to do with believing that Jesus died on the cross for our sins, it’s more a conservative White identity status.
The cultists drive out the moderates who would keep things on an even keel.
Don’t kid yourself. These “moderates” keep their heads down and white knuckle through it until they convince themselves “it’s not that bad.” People don’t leave their churches.
Yes.
Say, Islam as a religion has the "cut in stone" part, the only way to change that is a new prophet. Literally. And it has the rest, which is up to very wide interpretation. And it doesn't have a central authority (no Caliph today, though a certain ISIS type claimed that role).
So, that didn't make Islam a more tolerant religion. Not even remotely.
Gotta wonder how things would have shaken out if Mohammad had a son survive long enough to take over.
With Islam, you do have multiple thorough legal traditions to choose from for authority. There’s at least some consistency. Iirc, there’s an entire system of grading Hadith based on how many steps removed they are from the prophet - while your average American Christian believes that Mark, Matthew, John and Luke wrote Mark, Matthew, John and Luke.
Evangelicals don’t have that kind of textual tradition, and what they do have is cockeyed squinting at their Bibles while trying to make it work with their pop culture understanding of theology. The focus on having a “personal” relationship with Jesus + sola scriptura when most of these folks have sub fifth grade reading levels means that whatever feels good at the time is what God wants.
I've met a lot of (ex-Soviet, that should be kept in mind) Muslims, most wouldn't be able to tell the difference between this madhhab and that.
And Christian theology, when you don't reduce it to average American Christians, has a lot of tradition.
What I mean ... you typical Salafi is just like that:
Can we just agree that most people with religious identities don't care about actual philosophy?
I don’t disagree with you about Christian theology in general. I think a part of it is that American Evangelical Christianity is rapidly diverging from what most would recognize as Christianity. I’ve seen a few news articles where pastors get pushback on things like the Sermon on the Mount. I’ve never a seen a literalist/dominionist advocate for the clearing of debts every 7 years; only stoning queer people. I could see Trump ending up as some sort of messiah figure.
I think Salafism and American evangelical fundamentalism have a lot in common; in my religious historiography class we discussed how increased literacy in general in the 19th century led to a lot of these “literalist” movements.
100% - for the vast majority of individuals it’s more of a cultural/in group experience. Very enlightening when you study periods of mass conversion… usually more of a practical concern than one of conviction.
Literacy increase in 1920s-1930s USSR (European parts) led to a certain kind of people for whom things officially printed are obviously true.
They unironically consider it the ultimate argument that some general summary, that is printed in an official history book for schools, says what they say. They don't get the idea of cross-checking sources, they don't get the idea of hermeneutics, they don't get the idea of dispute. Actually it's worse - they think they get all these ideas, and all these ideas are barbarism, while reading something officially printed and not doubting it is enlightenment. It's that bad.
The risk is that all the mindless drones and zealots that they have actively created over hundreds of years are now off somewhere else doing the same shitty things they were doing before but for someone else, potentially someone even worse than the church.
Just look at the overlap of religious fundamentalists and conspiracy believers.
They got the most crooked and bonkers president elected. Ah yes, the spoiled NYC billionaire is going to save the children from the lizard people. Praise be!
He definitely won't be the first to sell Trump brand human skin to the lizards.
For example of a modern religion that exists outside of traditional churches, look at something like ufology. Then in Silicon Valley they have the new AI religion.
Real talk: a lot of communities depend on their churches, particularly black communities in the south, because no one else will help them. It’s a critical hub for community support (hell the GOTV efforts for Obama by black churches was so effective states started passing laws to block Sunday voting. Look up “souls to the polls.”)
A lot of folks here care a ton about organized labor. Churches were critical to those efforts in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. Even into the mid 20th century.
I think religion does more harm than good. I am fine with these churches shutting down. But there will be negative ramifications. We need to fill the gaps.
Serious answer: an astonishing, alarming chunk of the american population believes the reason why there are social problems, things like school shootings et al, is because there isn't enough religion. They truly believe that MORE religion is the answer. It's disgusting and intellectually offensive, and I'll fight to the death against anyone trying to force me to adhere to their superstitious dogma (praise be, under his eye). So you should be aware that's the ideology.