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Honestly I've done mostly forgot, and with the proliferation of AI technologies and all the typos AI has read from in the training models, I bet AI isn't always right about this either.

I usually just don't care anymore, whether the autocorrect puts the apostrophe in or not.

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[-] over_clox@lemmy.world 3 points 6 days ago

Apostrophe also means possession, so why the historical nitpicky difference?

[-] tiramichu@lemm.ee 13 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

Apostrophe is only ever possessive when used with a noun.

Example:

"There was a stick in the dog's mouth" <- correct, dog is a noun

The word "its" is not a noun, Instead it serves the same function of possessive pronouns like "his" or "hers" and like those words it is never in this usage written with an apostrophe:

"The dog had a stick in his mouth" <--correct

"The dog had a stick in its mouth" <-- correct

"The dog had a stick in it's mouth" <-- wrong

In short, the ONLY rule you need to remember is that if the word "its" is short for "it is" then it should have an apostrophe, otherwise it doesn't.

That's all. One single rule, zero exceptions.

[-] over_clox@lemmy.world 0 points 6 days ago

Then why does it vs it's break all the other rules of the apostrophe?

Where's the exact exception?

[-] tiramichu@lemm.ee 7 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

While it may seem like "it" and "it's" are different forms of the same word, in reality they are completely different words

he / his

her / hers

It / its

The above are all different forms of the same words.

"it's" however is merely a shortening of "it is" and on that basis is a totally different word that (very misleadingly!) happens to sound exactly the same as "its"

EDIT:

Another way of looking at this :)

his & he's (shortening of "he is") are different words in the same way, but nobody makes the mistake of writing or saying "he's car" instead of "his car" - it's obviously wrong because the words sound different - 'hiz' and 'heez'

The same is exactly and identically true of "its" and "it's'" but those words sound the same, so the mistake comes easily.

[-] corsicanguppy@lemmy.ca 6 points 6 days ago

Don't demand nitpicky references in triplicate from people who assumed you just wanted to know and didn't understand you were out to normalize failing.

Go find a teacher. It's that person's job to show you why. If you don't believe that person, then it's an oppositional disorder you'll need information on.

[-] over_clox@lemmy.world 1 points 5 days ago

I never suggested I didn't believe anyone, I just wanted a refresher on what happens to be a rather simple and common typo/misspelling, that even autocorrect and artificial intelligence can and do frequently get wrong.

English is known to be an awkward language anyways, and these days teachers are more and more using artificial intelligence to help teach their students. After 30ish years of reading both correct and incorrect uses of its versus it's, I started to forget which way is correct.

But it also makes one wonder, when and where exactly did the awkward rules of the apostrophe, plus other awkward rules and spellings, even enter into the English language?

[-] apolo399@lemmy.world 2 points 6 days ago

There are two very different things that take the form •'s:

  1. as the clitic version of a verb, is, has, and sometimes was and does; 2) as the genitive/possessive case marker.

  2. can be attached at the end of all noun phrases, even when the noun phrases is a single pronoun, like it: it's=it is, it has (or it was and it does in some dialects).

  3. can be attached to all noun phrases except to personal pronouns. These inflect, they change their forms: I>my, mine; you>your, yours; he>his; she>her, hers; it>its; we>our, ours; they>their, theirs.

Historically, the genitive case marker •'s originated from inflectional morphology in the form of •es. Different classes of nouns would have different case markers but the •es version ended up prevailing over the others as english shed its case system. The apostrophe that turned •es into •'s seems to have come from imitating the french practice of using an apostrophe where a vowel wasn't pronounced anymore.

[-] JubilantJaguar@lemmy.world 2 points 6 days ago

Others are telling you you're an idiot but you're not.

The noun-pronoun distinction for the possessive apostrophe is irrational. Unlike other European languages, English never had a formal institution to dictate orthography. This odd incoherence would never have lingered in French, let alone ultra-logical German.

Personally I think the possessive apostrophe looks semi-illiterate even when it's correct. It should be Harrys Bar like it would be in German.

this post was submitted on 01 Jan 2025
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