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this post was submitted on 21 Aug 2023
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On a side note: this is also why teenagers should not be driving cars. She was 17 and able to driver her friends around? WTH?
Until she's 18 she should not have a driver's license
Once 18 she should, until 21, only be able to drive around with an adult over 21 next to her to monitor her driving
Cars are 2 tonnes of death on wheels, why do we allow irresponsible teenagers to play around with that?
Well then again, this is the US were talking about, teenagers can get near military grade weapons as well and nothing ever goes wrong with that, so what am I complaining about rite?
The vast majority of teenagers are fine and require transportation to get to work/school. I wouldn't argue against restrictions on passengers but completely stripping them of driving would fuck up so many things. How does a 18-21 year old get back and forth to college without a car for example?
That is an Americas problem. All the cities there are very badly designed, just for cars. In Europe (holy hell, the Netherlands) you can get everywhere by bike or public transportation or just plain walking and it's awesome. In the US things are the way they are because of bad city design and lack of any public transportation.
Yes, minimum driving age should be 18 and even then require adult supervision.
Even from rural areas?
Yes.
8 year olds also need to go to school, are we going to put those in cars too?
8 year olds go to school in the same town they live in and the school district has busses to go pick them up or their parents can go drop them off quickly. The same can't be said for a student going to a college in a different town/city there's not going to be a public transportation option that just goes straight to their school or to their job from school or whatever they need to do. They might be able to accomplish it by switching busses a couple times or something but that will add a ton of time to their commute. It's not practical.
On top of that, pushing the driving age back will just result in a bunch of inexperienced 18/21 year old drivers and we'll be having the same conversation about them after a few years go by.
I used to ride 25 kms (16 miles, give or take?) to and from work, every day. These distances aren't extreme eitherloads of kids would (and do) drive that to school every day as well.
The thing that makes that possible is safe and comfortable bike lanes. More than 30 kms? use busses. If you have a good public transportation system, these busses will have direct connections and drive every 15-30 minutes during school hours.
I know, this sounds insane in the US but that is because car manufacturers have brainwashed US citizens with the nonsense that this is how it must be. Your cities are godawful, all of them, because every city is Designed for cars, not for humans. If you get into a city designed for humans you'll be amazed. I know because every American is amazed by how beautiful cities can be when they see them.
How long did it take to bike 16 miles?
I did it every time in around 45 minutes. First week was heavy and slower, then I got used to it. I had windy days which cost me either more or less time, depending on of I had the wind in my back or not. I had rainy days where I could get wet, or if I had a poncho, get a bit wet. But it was always doable and a great exercise.
Imagine this, my mother when she was 65 would regularly go ride with my sister. They literally said (and did) that for less than a 100kms (say, 60 miles) they wouldn't even change into their special biking clothes as that wouldn't be worth it. On many occasions they would do well over 60 miles in a day, just driving "slowly" in their bikes for fun to see the landscape and all. Super healthy for body and mind.
This is what happens when you have a country designed for people instead of cars.
So it's about half as slow as a car. When I was in my last years of college my school was 20 miles in one direction from home and then I worked in another town ~15 miles from there and then another 20 miles back home. If I had been trying to manage that on a bike/public transport it would have been much harder to schedule that and there'd have been no time for anything besides traveling and work/school. It was rough even going by car but that was the only place I could find in the field I wanted to get into that would hire me without having finished my degree.
Sure, it won't work for everyone but bikes and public transportation typically works well for most people if only they'd try it. Cycling is very healthy and much better for the environment and frankly, car dependent cities as we have them now simply are unsustainable
If it won't work for everyone then we can't ban driving for everyone.
Nobody is saying that cars should be completely banned. Cycling should be encouraged. Governments should sponsor buying bikes, build loads of GOOD cycling infrastructure (look at the Netherlands for examples for gods sake, cycling infrastructure in the Americas is a dangerous joke), make owning and using a car more expensive, make it easier to arrive to destinations by bike than by car. Invest heavily in public transportation.
The US could have had all that the Netherlands has now but it doesn't. It has huge and ugly cities that can only be used by car owners. If you don't own a car you're a second class citizen. You will mill out on good jobs. All that is insane to me. I never NEEDED a car. I can have one, but bikes are easier 100% of the time in sub 15 mile radius.
Requiring an adult to be with them is functionally a ban for college students or young people trying to work.
I guess that's a point but not the one you think it is. I think it's telling of the abysmal state of public transportation and cycling infrastructure that a car is required to almost survive at this point, or at the least to be a functional member of society... It shouldn't be like that
It shouldn't be but it is so that has to be fixed before you argue to raise the minimum age for driving.
That's true enough
Public transportation is the standard here in europe for that kind of stuff, almost nobody among my classmate come by car. They all use the tramway, busses or bikes
Congratulations. We aren't even close to being able to do that where I live. The closest college is 20 miles away.
It doesn't matter what age is it. It's not like people suddenly stop being reckless and careless at 21. I've heard enough horror stories of people who are way ahead of legal age doing dangerous stuff.
Generally speaking, people get more responsible when they get older. Yes of course there are exceptions, some people bever grow up, but seriously... Giving a 16 year old a sports car? Are they nuts?
In Germany you can drink beer before you can drive a car. Usually people still will kill people with a car when they are old enough to drive. Drunk or not.
Point is that young people cause disproportionally more accidents due to lack of experience driving, lack of experience living, lack of knowledge, and lack or responsibility