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this post was submitted on 28 Aug 2023
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I get this completely. This is nothing new for France, they have been blocking Christians from wearing crosses and Jews from wearing kippah's for a very long time, it's only reasonable that the Muslim population gets treated equally. Schools should remain completely secular, I am in complete agreement with France there.
Except abayas are basically just some loose-fitting clothes that can be worn by anyone regardless their religion. It's like banning kimono or sari.
If it's just an outfit and not religious clothes than there should be no problem, right?
It’s still targeting ethnicities. There’s no denying that these bans have a racial component to it.
I'd say it's cultural rather than racial. Putting one culture above others is not the same as putting one race above others.
Especially since one culture refuses to assimilate when they migrate to a new country. Yeah I'm an American, but if I moved to France or Japan I wouldn't try to change the local culture, I'd try to fit in. If I visited Saudi Arabia, not that they'd let me, my pasty white ass is putting on a turban and some robes so that I don't die of sun exposure. I'd be the first person in history to get a 4th degree sunburn. I'm not gonna wander around in short pants, and flip flops bare chested the way I could here in SoCal.
oh no it's the assimilation police, dictating how and when people give up their culture!
Yeah, no.
If someone comes to my country I'd expect them to adapt.
No homophobic abuse, no sexist abuse, no telling women what they can and can't do.
Cultures aren't all equal. If your culture is built on bigotry, I have zero respect for it. According to some cultures, I should be stoned to death for being a bisexual man. Fuck those cultures.
Yeah. When you decide to join another culture, you don't force yours on them. If your culture was so shitty that you had to flee to a different country, then maybe it was a shitty culture that shouldn't be preserved
How does the style of clothes you're wearing force anything on anyone? It's cool if you want to embrace the new culture, but you wouldn't be hurting anyone if you didn't. Besides, it's not like you have to choose one or the other; assimilating doesn't have to mean you give up everything pertaining to the culture you lived in before.
Side note -- shitty culture is far from the only reason for people to move. I'm no expert, but I'm guessing it's not at the top of the list either, lol.
Kids are bullies. That's one point of school uniforms. It takes away a potential bullying target
It's pretty simple. Give up your culture for another if the other is superior. If your culture is bigoted, for whatever reason, religious or not, give it up.
It is not. It's targeting religious signs. If your ethnicity can't live with the same laws as others than it isn't not you being ostracized, it's you being dick by forcing everyone to follow your dogmas.
Not everyone who wears an abaya is religious or Muslim. And France doesn’t target religious signs equally, which is why the 2004 law banned hijab but allowed crosses.
And if you’re mad that others have to somehow “cater to your dogmas,” someone should tell the French who visit Algeria and other middle eastern countries and demand wine and pork.
It allowed crosses and other religious symbols, such as the islamic moon and star so long as they were hidden by clothing
A hijab isn't hidden by clothing, it is the clothing.
So are turbans. Sikhs fought and died to protect france during world war 2, only for their children to be told they must now hide their religion and conform.
This is a badly written law and France is in the wrong here with their unique interpretation of laicite different than every other country’s secularism. As Thomas Jefferson said, other people’s beliefs and expressions “neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.”
Having died in ww2 should not give you full freedom to force your religion on your children
Plenty of religious people fought and died in WW2. That doesn't mean they get the right to make religious displays in state schools.
I guess this is where we agree to disagree. I view people covering their hair (of either gender) as in keeping with the tenets of their faith and as part of their relationship with God, and you view this good intention as some effort to show off to other people around you. Get over yourself; the state taking this right away is no different than 20th century dictators who force men to shave or ban religious symbols that the ruling class dislikes.
So you're saying the law is completely biased, since the exception fits how Christians commonly display their religion? How convenient.
No problem meaning they shouldn't care about not being able to wear it? Or that the French government shouldn't care in the first place?
How people dress is none of the government's business. This is just authoritarism.
Except when you want it, because you like it when you don't see other people's genitalia. Then it suddenly is the governments bussiness. In this case it's even just for during your attendance at a public school.
I am okay with everyone walking around nude. If you really want skin cancer and everyone seeing your thunder thighs you should be able to. Me personally I am going to continue to wear clothing.