We need to be careful extrapolating this to general trends, because the ones doing the intercepting (likely the SBU/Ukrainian intelligence) decide what to release. This is not a random sample.
I have no reason to doubt the intercepts are real, but I do wonder about the content of all the other intercepts that are not released.
no you're right, i'm sure there are places where the Russian soldiers are having a great time and not dying like dogs
It's a general enough trend that they needed to create a special code for the phenomenon.
I'm sure they had the code already, the fact that the US has "section 8" doesn't mean they're all going crazy.
You're right, the other intercepts are probably just straight up crying.
Seems like every generation has to learn the Old Lie again and again.
https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/46560/dulce-et-decorum-est
I can't help but think most soldiers realize it's a load of bullshit when they're choking on their own blood.
Soldiers realize it well before then. The VFW is a club that hopes it withers away from lack of new members.
Thank you for sharing this. I don't read much poetry, much less in German. But this kept me on the edge of my seat.
Jesus Christ. The first one was beautiful and terrible. This was just naked horror (though part of that was that I’m not a native German speaker, so phrases like “blood-shod” in the first poem might have flown over my head in the second one), but I think it might be more effective for it. I also like that it addresses the populace, more than the politicians/potential soldiers.
Interesting! It‘s the opposite with me, I am not a native English speaker, and I actually didn‘t understand blood-shod. They limp and have blood in their shoes? The pictures that came to my mind reminded me of the Borchert poem. It felt like the adequate reply. I love it for the explicit message: Sag Nein! The horror at its end I find just as horrifying as the Owen poem. Back to back, and we have snapshots of the horrors of WWI, WWII and WWIII.
Shod is basically an archaic form of “shoed,” so it’s soildiers who have worn through their boots and are walking just on blood.
I agree that they’re both incredibly moving and horrifying. I think “Sag Nein!” Reflects the perspective of the German postwar generation on communal guilt, whereas the other is more of an attack on politicians. It seems fitting, based on the wars involved, especially because they’re both calls to action, rather than simply condemnations.
That was a tough read in both ways.
Russia must be a wonderful place to wake up in the morning.. what an amazingly joyful, wonderful place it must be.. that must be why so many intelligent people have fled for the nearest border..
Russia, the land of earthworms
I see nothing has changed then since early 2022.
If this was obtained and released by Ukraine, it is a type of propaganda. It might be true, but it's definitely designed to further erode the spirit of any Russian listener and bolster the Ukrainian side.
Here's Vietnam propaganda trying to get US soldiers to give up: https://people.duke.edu/~ng46/collections/propaganda/vietnam-to-us/LEAFLET%20North%20Vietnam%20Whats%20in%20Washingtons%20War%201%20600h.jpg
Here are a bunch of quotes from All Quiet On the Western Front
https://www.goodreads.com/work/quotes/2662852-im-westen-nichts-neues
I couldn't finish that book, way too depressing. Also I kept wanting to scream at all those kids to just go home and stop fighting over fucking nothing.
I remember reading when the war first started that Russia has the numbers to continually onslaught for a long time. If they're pulling prisoners, the old and young, etc., is that really true anymore?
It's very ducking complicated, but I'll do my best to give you a sensible answer. I live in Russia and while I'm no journalist or expert, maybe I have something worthwhile to say for an insight.
We do have the numbers, period - there's money in killing our neighbors, there's some sort of twisted fate or purpose that always emerges during this kind of times, and there's people willing to do this kind of stuff for the kind of money or purpose offered. There's also, well, just people of various backgrounds, skills, and capabilites to forcefully throw into the war effort, but the most important thing is that it's not just a number game - like, it's not a dead-simple RTS game where you select some units and magically convert them into equally capable combatants over a set period of time to go and win with some tactics.
Despite the somewhat prevalent opinion, this is not a popular war, it's not supported or sacred or anything - Russia wouldn't see so many people fleeing and imprisoned otherwise. Wouldn't have to forcefully mobilise anyone either.
There's enough people in the country that the government can try and throw at the wall of this war and see if they stick and magically do something, but that doesn't guarantee any success of its own and has massive risks that even the current old men aren't willing to take.
As a bonus, any good dictator loves a war, especially a war that's prolonged, that's convenient excuse for anything - establish the right kind of info, punish anyone who disagrees, make people praise you for the very little they may get because things could always be worse, make the war the excuse, tell people it's good and creates work places and gives them purposes, and so and so forth. I don't belive Putin wants an end to this war - he'd much rather let it help him sit tighter on his blood-drenched throne, and make Ukraine suffer for not playing along with his egomaniac ambitions; under Putin, the war dies with him, not a minute earlier.
As another Russian, I can confirm that.
Also, I'd add that, while Russia is full of men, and technically the manpower is close to infinite, the equipment is a whole another story.
Government organized a lot of volunteer services to allow civilians to support the effort by donating clothing, collecting money to buy armor and even guns.
Many on the frontlines are constantly talking about critical lack of basic supplies, and drafting any more people is just sending them to sure death without any effect on the actual military effort the Russian government pursues. This is probably one of the core reasons Russia doesn't escalate the conflict any more.
And yes - war is not popular here, but sadly, that's something we mostly have to share quietly on our kitchens.
That, too. Good points, thanks.
The people that got mobilised late September last year already lead to many reports of extremely poor and lacking equipment, and news like that usually don't break out of something as gated and hostile to any outside world communications as the Russian army.
Prigozhin and his Wager group got increasingly mad because of that, too, among other things, as they weren't pumped full of money and best gear the Russian government could muster. They said they were getting g ripped off and such, but what really happened is they got down to the same tier gear as everyone else (maybe higher, still), and that was THAT infuriating to them.
They've been pulling undesirables in hopes of wearing down Ukraine with them, a general mobilization of the population has not happened yet I believe.
It's the ol' meat avalanche tactic once again, and Russia's leadership is once again forgetting that logistics and hardware win wars... and they're quickly running on fumes...
"It's war, no one's happy. If those same spies were in our camps..."
Lord Tywin Lannister
But seriously, yes, I'm sure they have low morale. But it's frontline peer conflict. I'm sure the GRU has plenty of intercepted calls from Ukrainian conscripts saying and feeling very similarly.
Maybe that can't be extrapolated across the board for the UA, but certainly enough for a similar propaganda/psyop release.
Unlikely. The Ukrainians are literally fighting for their homes and their lives. While I'm sure they're sick of warfare, it doesn't follow that their morale would at all be similar.
An army can have good overall morale, and still have frontline soldiers complaining on the phone, especially conscripts.
That's my point. Selective release of intercepted calls of soldiers complaining, or otherwise expressing negative feelings isn't unique to armies with poor morale.
The Ukrainians are still humans. They aren't zealots, or robots. Humans have complex feelings, and they communicate those feelings, sometimes in ways that can be intercepted by enemy surveillance.
Do any soldiers want in? I bet both sides are tired
Andrei’s mom knows what to say to reporters to protect her son, I hope.
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