In the interview, Merkel stated that Vladimir Putin, at the beginning of his presidency, had no intention of attacking Ukraine, and his plan gradually took shape over the years, partly due to the behaviour of the West.
Did he also have no intention of continuing to occupy Georgia and Moldova and the West forced him to continue the occupation and then invade Georgia in 2008?
So did the interviewer ask her this? Cause they should have.
Not directly, but she did say that the Bucarest Summit lead to the invasion of Georgia in 2008.
She is talking about the year 2000. It took 8years for the war in Ukraine and 14 until he took Crimea and 22 years until the full scale invasion. Is it really that hard to imagine that Putin is not some incredible mastermind, but does something big, when he believes there is a good chance of success or something else changes. In 2008 Georgia had made moves to join NATO, so Russia intervened. 2014 was the Orange Revolution and Ukraine was weak, so he attacked. If he wanted to take all of Ukraine all the time, that was actually also the perfect moment for that. However it took him until 2022, when he thought the West was weak due to Covid and a lot more propaganda, for him to attack. It might also very well be that he changed his mind on a lot of things, being in power for over two decades and yes the behavior of the West certainly was part of it.
Russia invaded Moldova and Georgia in the early 90s under Yeltsin.
This is not a putin matter per se. This is a russia issue.
Putins court ideogog wrote the book on russian empire path. They have followed it to the letter for decades. Even before ger reign. 🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔
Merkel attempting to retcon all the decades long "success" she had on the back of cheap Russian oil and gas, selling out Ukraine in the process
show me a conservative that accepts blame for anything
Plenty of blame to go around. Where is Gerhard Schroder these days?
Apparently his party wasn't able to expell him and caved. Source in German: https://www.n-tv.de/politik/Miersch-erklaert-Gerhard-Schroeder-wieder-zum-Teil-der-SPD-article25321765.html
Hey someone should try to find a ladder - it might help her to climb down a bit from her own asshole.
For real, she killed any possibility of a response because she was too invested in nordstream 2. It was a conflict of interest, and it made a difference, and this war, right now, is the consequence.
She also fed the afd.. letting in a million refugees, telling everyone it will be fine and then not actually doing anything to prevent the issues everyone saw coming.
And somehow now it‘s all the greens fault.
I will never understand how that works.
@Badeendje @Skiluros well, i'am thankful for 1 million ppl in our overaged society. And she and fckg Obama fckes it up in Syria letting this genocidal tyrant mass murder and gas their citizens! So this is actually the only thing she was right about!
I'm not saying she should have stopped the migrants or whatever.. but integrating a million people will mean you need to invest heavily in making sure these people land properly, get the help they need (including medical and psychological where needed, language and integration, preventing ghetto forming, housing.. etc etc) I'd argue she came up short.
@Badeendje fair points.
Why are you censoring yourself?
Ukraine was essentially a Russian client state until a few years later. I imagine very few wanted Ukraine in the alliance until a little more of the corruption was taken care of. Germany definitely benefited from cheap oil and gas from Russia while Russia did bad things but I think these are two different issues.
A Boomer who refuses to accept and acknowledge their personal failing and complicit decisions?
Quelle surprise
Denialism
It's a mistake to say that she (as a single person) is responsible for all the problems nowadays.
Do you think Putin woldn't have attacked, if Ukraine would have joined the NATO? Nobody knows. There is just no indication to believe such an step would have prevented the problems nowadays.
She enabled putin and promoted russian imperialism. Even to this day she refuses to speak clearly about this.
Putin didn't attack the Baltic nations, even though they have even less capability to fight back against the russians.
"She enabled putin and promoted russian imperialism. Even to this day she refuses to speak clearly about this."
Can you give some examples for that claim? Anyway, I still believe there were more people involved, a single person can not be made responsible for consolidation of his position.
Building out NS2 after the annexation of Crimea is not support for Russian imperialism?
Refusing to recognize in any practical manner (not thoughts and prayers) the russian occupation of Moldova and Georgia is not de facto support for russian imperialism?
Claiming that "the west" forced putin to invade Ukraine is not parroting russian propaganda?
In the interview, Merkel stated that Vladimir Putin, at the beginning of his presidency, had no intention of attacking Ukraine, and his plan gradually took shape over the years, partly due to the behaviour of the West.
Russia already had a direct border with NATO, right by their 2nd largest city. The entrance of Finland and Sweden to NATO was not an issue at all for russia. Because the russians of course know that "threat to our security from NATO" is a beautiful scapegoat for imperialism expansion. And Merkel explicitly gives cover to this claim.
Full tolerance of multiple high-profile assassinations and even combat activity by the russians on EU soil is not support for russian imperialism?
Putting Navanlniy, a known supporter of the annexation of Crimea and the invasion of Georgia, on the metaphorical pedestal should not under any condition be interpreted as support for russian imperialism?
Full acceptance of banning of Ukrainian passports and Ukrainian culture in the occupied Donetsk/Lugansk (pre full scale invasion) is not support for russian genocidal imperialism?
NS2 was build by Angela Merkel, alone? Of course not. Even if she would have build it by her own hands (alone) - she was elected by voters, you can not deny there were so many people involved.
What about Gerhard Schröder? Why not blame him? Or Daniela Schwesig? Again, the voters decided to put these people into power.
But I totally agree with you, that the reaction of europe politicans to russian imperialism was weak. There should have been much more attention and much more consequences (since the 90s).
Where did I say Merkel built NS2 with her own hands? What does this even mean?
We are discussing Merkel, no? You think my opinion of Schroder or Steinmeier is much better than Merkel?
Merkel had the option of using NS2 as leverage against russia. Merkel had the option of applying real sanctions against the russia (not meaningless BS the explicitly targeted some low level goons/orgs directly involved in annexed Crimea). Did she do any of this?
Let me go on a tangent for second. If I am wrong, and Merkel is not a support de facto supporter of russian genocidal imperialism (she may nominally oppose it even in a genuine manner, but I am talking about outcomes and actions), then the following should be easy to answer.
[1] What does "peace through trade" (in context of Merkel) refer to? If this is not a shallow BS slogan to enable russian imperialism, it has to mean something. What peace? For who? When? Where? What does this mean?
[2] Any strategy is based on some cause-effect drivers, right? Otherwise it's not a strategy, but just some BS. What were these driver for the "peace through trade" policy in these two buckets:
What about russia's actions/trends in the last 30 years served as a driver for Merkel's strategy? Did putin decide to liberalize municipal elections while maintaining control over parliamentary and presidential election so the goal was to try and provide incentives to maybe get him to allow open regional elections? What sort of good faith actions has russia done in foriegn policy in the last 30 years? Can you provide clear and specific examples?
[3] Any strategy has to have a final desirable state outcome. You need an end goal to strive for and evaluate the performance of the strategy, otherwise it is not a real strategy. So based on the points raised in [2] (those points exist and were defined, right? 🤣), what was Merkel's desirable state outcome? She wanted German engagement with russia to eventually result in open elections for governors, russia reengaging in good faith around the occupation of Moldova. Just some examples.
What was her goal? Surely, this is not an unreasonable ask.
Thank you!
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