I’m sorry that your current reality is an aggression into your homeland and that they’re calling on you against your will. That sure sucks.

It sure does :(

But even if goes against your wishes, peace doesn’t exist there (presumably you’re talking from the Ukraine) and liberties are the first thing to go when shit gets real

I am from Ukraine, but thankfully I am not in Ukraine, as I managed to escape it before the war started when it was still possible.
Peace was always possible, but Zelensky and his regime does not want it, because war is what allows him to stay in power and steal millions/billions of dollars.

No one pretended during the world war that they were a free and fair democracy

Zelensky does pretend that Ukraine is free and fair democracy though, and is lying to everyone's faces that Ukraine is a democratic country that "doesn't chase people with sticks to the frontlines". He is a pathological liar, and unfortunately many people believe him.

Good luck with the ruskies, hope they die 2 per 1 shot at your country’s hands for what they’re doing.

The problem is not with "ruskies", the problem is with Zelensky. Just 1 shot would be enough, and it can't come soon enough. We can deal with Russia later.

What country are you from?

I'm from Ukraine. You can find a little bit more info about that in my other comments - but TLDR is that thankfully I have left it before the war started, some of my family managed to escape it (illegally of course, going through the occupied territories and then through Russia, it's a mass prison now for most of the men there), but some are still trapped and trying to not get caught by the government, because if they do (and don't have enough money for a bribe), they will be sent to the front lines and probably die.

I don’t see any fascist comments in your profile

Cool, thanks, glad to see someone here with whom it's possible to have a conversation without getting called a fascist :)

but you do seem extremely pissed off that Ukraine is defending itself from Russia.

I am not pissed about Ukraine defending itself from Russia. I absolutely support the right of everyone, both people and nations, to defend themselves against an invader! I also never said that Russia are the good guys (and yet, I'm getting labeled Russian propagandist/bot as well, just saying that Russia invaded Ukraine and there is a war is a punishable offense in Russia for which I'd be sitting in jail 🤷). The problem is, it's not "Ukraine defending itself from Russia".
There is this propaganda from Zelensky's regime that we are all volunteering to defend our country against "orcs", and he is the hero that leading us into this battle. This is as far from the truth as it gets. We want peace, which he doesn't even try to achieve (and why would he? War is what allows him to stay in power and steal millions, or likely billions of dollars). His regime needs to resort to kidnapping people on the streets and sending them to the front-lines to die. Some are refusing this and are getting sent to prisons where they are tortured. Some are trying to escape by the mountains/rivers and are dying while trying to do so. So yeah, what I'm pissed about is that the current government, supported by the west, may kill my family or my friends any day now, just like they already killed tens/hundreds of thousands already.
If it was like Zelensky's propaganda is saying where we are defending our country, and our country was not turned into a mass-prison, I'd be sending donates to AFU every freaking month. But in this reality, any support for the current government of my country is equivalent to supporting my family/friends getting killed, and as you can imagine I am not going to do that, and trying to discourage everybody else from doing so.

Yeah, so that's exactly what I'm talking about, just insults and complete lack of ability to have a normal discussion :(

So, if you have not moved on yet (if you have and/or are not willing to continue the conversation - please still think about it, it's important for self-improvement) - I have just one question for you. In theory, if you were believing in something that is not actually true (of course this is impossible, as you are clearly intelligently superior than me and your every belief is correct, but let's pretend otherwise just for the sake of a thought experiment), how would you expect to learn the truth, if you refrain from engaging in a civilized argument and call people that disagree with you trash and fascists? For example, if you lived a few centuries ago, and believed that Earth is flat (which is a normal thing to believe at that time btw, because that was the consensus of the majority) and you called everybody who says it's round a fascist (at that time it would rather be heretic, but it doesn't matter), how do you imagine a scenario where you learn the truth? Or are you saying that you don't care about learning the truth?

I'm hearing this argument over and over again, yet for some reason no one can explain whether giving up land to an invader is always unacceptable, or are there some exceptions? Maybe it's how long ago the land was taken?
I suspect it's the latter, and this time period is greater than 10 years (because Crimea is still "rightfully Ukrainian", right?), but less than a few hundred years (because all the other invaded territories now "rightfully belong to the invader".
You do understand that almost every piece of land on this planet, that belongs to country A, was conquered from another country B (or from a tribe B if we go long enough into the history, or from family B if go even further, or from some other entity if we go even further)?
Should Poland invade Ukraine to retake Lviv?
Should Finland invade Russia to retake Karelia?
Should Mexico invade USA to retake California?
Should every country in Europe invade every other country in Europe because they all hold some territories that belonged to a different country some time back?

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/us-intelligence-believes-putin-probably-didn-t-order-his-rival-navalny-s-killing-report-claims/ar-AA1nLp5U

Doesn’t mind joining EU?

Why are you asking me? It's a publicly available info, not my opinion.

Oh, because I assume 2014 was a coup and not people being mad at the president refusing to sign a trade agreement with the EU and choosing closer ties to russia despite promises right?

From wikipedia:
A sudden appropriation of leadership or power; a takeover.

Seems to suit that definition.

Like those negotiations where russia promised not to attack Ukraine if they gave up their nukes, yeah.

Yeah, they did that. Now, would you please be so kind to tell me about a country that never broke any internation laws, agreements, etc.? Pro tip: you can't.
Does it mean that nobody should negotiate with each anymore because we all did bad things in the past, and we should instead just kill each other?

And I find it hilarious that you’re rooting for the perpetrators of the Bucha massacre. I guess none of your friends were there so that was fine. Well, if that’s what your logic dictates, very well. Good luck with that.

Yes, thankfully none of my friends were there.
But this is again an unfair comparison!
According to the wikipedia - a few hundred people were murdered there. Let's add to that a few thousand more civilians that were killed by Russian forces. Let's say it is a ten thousand, give or take. This is a horrible number. Yet the number of people killed/wounded by Zelensky's regime is an order of fucking magnitude greater than that! Estimated to be in hundreds of thousands!
If you were given an option where you could die with 1% chance or with 10% chance, which option would you choose? I think for most people the answer is clearly the former. My logic indeed dictates that, and I would choose it every time. Does your logic say otherwise?
So you're damn right I'm rooting for the "perpetrators of the Bucha massacre" instead of "perpetrators of mass genocide of Ukrainians". If there was a good side to root for, I would. But there isn't. So I support the side that I consider the lesser evil, the side which gives Ukrainians a hope of survival.

But yeah, either you’re a very naïve ukranian or more likely what I’ve been saying from the start.

Could you please explain to me, how does "rooting for" the side that increases the chance of survival for my family and all the other Ukrainians mean that I am naïve?
Or if you think what you've "been saying from the start" (basically that Mr. Putin pays me to write comments on lemmy), why do you think so? Why isn't it logical for a Ukrainian to hope that Russia will win? I argumented my position, that it's as simple as increasing the chance of survival for oneself and their family. Isn't that the most precious thing one has?

Russia took Crimea and that was fine because it was theirs to begin with or whatever right? Georgia Ossetia and Abkhazia ? Chechnya? Transnistria? All of these democratically elected to be “independent” or to be russian right? Definitely nothing going on there.

I am not saying either of those things are okay or not okay (as well as other countries annexing other countries' territories btw), because it depends on whether the people there wanted to part of Russia or not (and we cannot know this for sure, as different sides will claim differently).
As for the Crimea in particular though, I was there a few times while it still belonged to Ukraine, and the people I've met there were mostly extremely pro-Russian and some were openly saying they would like to be a part of Russia. But of course this is a hearsay, and you may have heard different things (which wouldn't mean that either one of us is wrong!), but as I said before I do not assert that this is okay or not okay, I am only saying that I find it quite possible that in case of Crimea it was indeed will of the people (which would make it okay).
The same applies to Donbas - while I have never been there, I've met people from there and some of them were pro-Ukrainian some of them were pro-Russian, I met more pro-Russian ones (but again, I agree that this is a hearsay).
As for the other annexed Ukrainian territories and the countries/regions you've mentioned - I have never spoken with people from those territories, so again I do not assert it was fine or not fine, as it depends on what people of those territories think - and I do now know that.

And well, I personally know plenty of Ukrainians that aren’t hiding and they haven’t been drafted yet

Everybody I know who hasn't managed to escape and is of the draft age and isn't a college student is trying to hide.

So I don’t see why they’d need to resort to kidnappings to get people on the frontlines.

And yet they do.
https://uadraftmuseum.ch
Because Zelensky's propaganda repeated by western media is saying that everybody wants to fight Russia and everybody volunteers, while the reality is completely different, and who could have thought - people want to live instead of dying for their politicians (which is what Zelensky with support from the west is doing). And speaking out this fact, that people want to live, and that it is not okay to kill them, makes people call me fascist here. To clarify - I am not saying there are no volunteers, I even have some distant relatives who have volunteered, but they are a minority, the regime needs to kidnap people from the streets in order to survive.

Go on twitch and other streaming services and you can talk to them yourself.

I have no need for that, it's only logical that not everybody has been kidnapped yet, they do it when they need more people for the meat grinder.
And as I said - for now not everybody needs to fear being kidnapped at any time, as they are not touching some groups of people currently. But they already lowered the age of acceptable kidnapping from 27 to 25, and some even say that kidnapping 18 year olds is only a matter of time (I've read stories about how they have already kidnapped a few kids, and even girls, it's just that for now they let them go when they discover their age/gender, but for how long? let me know if you want me to try to find those stories :) ). Some say that women should get the same treatment.

The only ones conducting a genocide on Ukrainians are the Russians.

Nope, it's Zelensky thanks to the support from the west. The only ones that can be considered killed by Russians are killed civilians and volunteers (those two groups together are barely a meaningful number). People who are kidnapped on the streets and sent to army are dead thanks to Zelensky and your (rather your government) support of him. If it were not for that, they would be alive (or at least they would have a much higher chance to be alive). If you are going to deny that, please take an effort to argument your position, as it is quite tiring to speak to a wall :/

You’re right, you could actually be a fascist and do it for free

What a wonderful time we live in, expressing an opinion that murdering people is not OK is now considered fascist :)

Or you actually believe their propaganda

Again, you did not even specify what propaganda do I believe? Seriously, why is everybody here so incapable of having a discussion?
Ok I'll bite and play a guessing game with you.
Do you consider that "Zelenskyy is the one not negotiating while Russia has repeatedly said it is willing to negotiate" a propaganda?
If so, just let me know and I will give you sources for that, I just though that it is widely known?

No, I’m saying they are very unlikely to want a second nuclear disaster on the land they want to control.

And Russia does? They also want to (and in fact do, and are more likely to keep it so) control that land.

Your definition is your own

Indeed. You can share yours and we can discuss it as well.

any territory lost is immediately your enemies’ territory

Well, yes, this is how it works. Territory belongs to whoever controls it. Ukraine can claim it owns Crimea, Donbas and even Moscow itself, but what does it matter if Russia controls it? It's Russia's territory now regardless of what Ukraine and/or international law say. And to take it back they will need to conduct military actions on that territory (which belongs to enemy now, and therefore is "enemy territory"), including bombing it, conducting drone strikes (wherever they deem necessary, including nuclear power plants), etc.
Whose territory is Falkand Islands, Argentina or UK? Whose territory is mainland China, ROC or PRC? Whose territory is Taiwan, PRC or ROC? Whose territory is Northern Cyprus, Republic of Cyprus or Turkey? Depending on your political views you may have different answers to those questions, but in the reality they are controlled by the latter countries, so it is their territory, regardless of what you think. The same situation with south of Ukraine. It of course works the other way around as well, Russia claims that all of the Zaporizhzhia Oblast is theirs, which is not true because they do not control all of it.

Do you think Ukraine are the aggressors?

No.

And anyway, "whose territory it is" is a bikeshedding that does not matter.
What matters are facts - and the facts are that Russia controls the territory that the strike was conducted on. Are you disputing that?
And saying that Russia attacked a territory that it controls, without backing up those claims is a conspiracy theory, don't you think?

There is a possibility that this a false flag, sure!
But to claim that something is a false flag you need to back it up with something better than "they did that in the past so this surely must be it", don't you think?
When countries A and B are at war, and there's an attack happening on the territory of country B, is your first thought "this must be a false flag" or "this must be an attack by country A"?

I did not read that "Ukraine did this attack", as a matter of fact article does not say who attacked it, because they "lack evidence".
It's just the only way I see how one can believe that the attack was done by Russia, is a conspiracy theory that Russia attacks its own territory.
On the other one, Ukraine attacking it is perfectly logical because they are attacking a territory of their enemy that they do not control.