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[-] empireOfLove2@lemmy.dbzer0.com 84 points 11 hours ago
[-] wildncrazyguy138@fedia.io 55 points 11 hours ago

At least some, like Ralph Nader, regretted it. Now we have those actively seeking to spoil the vote.

[-] yesman@lemmy.world 22 points 10 hours ago

The tragic thing about Nader was his activism basically proved to General Motors and later large American corporations in general that political engagement and and public opinion was vital. The corpos learned to fight grass roots activism with astro-turf until they were just as skilled as Nader's acolytes, only with orders of magnitude more resources.

Every time I see an Oil company do a commercial about their commitment to the environment I think of Ralph.

[-] Dagwood222@lemm.ee 11 points 10 hours ago

Similarly, Woodward and Bernstein showed the corporations how dangerous an independent press was.

Back in Watergate Era, there were plenty of locally owned newspapers and TV stations. Today, thanks to ronald reagan's assault on the Fairness Doctrine, we have six major media companies controlling what we hear.

[-] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 14 points 11 hours ago

What does third parties have to do with lifelong Dem voters wanting the Dem candidate to side with the Dem voting base on basic parts of the party platform like:

  1. No fracking

  2. Better healthcare

  3. Climate change is real and producing less fossil fuels is a good thing

What you're doing is insisting if you're not 100% loyal to the candidate with a D by their name you really have an R.

That's the same fucking shit Republicans went thru and it ended up with trump.

Why the fuck do you want to follow down the path of "never criticize the party, and always vote for them".

Please explain to the class why this time it will work out good for the party that takes that path.

[-] CarbonIceDragon@pawb.social 12 points 10 hours ago

It's not that it will work out good (though in a sense, it has for the R in that they got what they actually wanted), it's that if the Rs have ~50% ish support, no matter what they do, because of them going that route, the only way to beat them is to get everyone that isn't them in a coalition together.

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[-] Snowclone@lemmy.world 2 points 7 hours ago* (last edited 7 hours ago)

Except Biden repeatedly gave in to pressure from his voter base on a lot of actions, we also got a lot of changes to DNC policy care of Sanders voter base. It's not ''do or die'' it's vote for an administration that will actually respond to pressure and voter's policy goals, or vote for a dictator backed by industralists who all want an ethnostate of uneducated second class citizens.

[-] givesomefucks@lemmy.world -1 points 7 hours ago

Except Biden repeatedly gave in to pressure from his voter base on a lot of actions, we also got a lot of changes to DNC policy care of Sanders voter base.

And Biden got elected despite his age...

2020 was an example of the candidate moving their campaign left and winning the election.

[-] Thrashy@lemmy.world 2 points 9 hours ago

The problem is that the broader Democratic electorate is a much bigger tent, with overall much more moderate politics, than online leftists are typically willing to admit. We're still only eight years past an election where Hillary Clinton took the Rust Belt for granted, and we all paid the price for that when traditionally solid union votes swung to Trump because he was boosting fossil fuel extraction while Clinton implicitly threatened the livelihoods of families dependent on coal and fracking jobs.

Healthcare you have a point on, but also keep in mind that the last time Dems had the votes for sort of sweeping reform was 2008, and what we got out of that was the ACA, which for all its faults was still a big step up over the status quo. Obama was going for a big bipartisan win, in spite of McConnell's announcing that he was killing bipartisanship in the GOP caucus, and that was a mistake, but perhaps an understandable one given that up to that point that's how Congress had always worked.

There have been windows of time since in which Dems have held the Presidency and both houses of Congress, but never with enough margin to defeat a Senate filibuster, and with DINOs like Manchin and Sinema standing in the way of filibuster reform. I do not doubt that progressives in Congress would move an M4A or public option bill through the legislature if, in 2025, the House flips back and the Senate stays Democratic in spite of the unfavorable cycle, but withholding your vote doesn't get you any closer to that happening.

[-] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 4 points 9 hours ago

The problem is that the broader Democratic electorate is a much bigger tent, with overall much more moderate politics, than online leftists are typically willing to admit

Polls show progressive policy isn't just popular with Dems, but all voters...

That's life mate, I'm sorry it doesn't agree with your opinions, but it's the truth.

That's why Obama's 08 campaign did so fucking well, despite not really being that progressive in any other developed country.

The neoliberal experiment has only benefited the wealthy, stop defending them, they got lawyers and lobbyists for them, pick people over corps and we can get something done.

[-] someguy3@lemmy.world 3 points 8 hours ago

Polls show progressive policy isn't just popular with Dems, but all voters...

That is until they're told it's a Dem policy.

And of course the progressives actually show up to vote.

[-] Cryophilia@lemmy.world 1 points 8 hours ago

The neoliberal experiment has only benefited the wealthy, stop defending them

Neoliberals are Republicans, so we're already not defending them.

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[-] explodicle@sh.itjust.works 6 points 9 hours ago

Bad faith: "I want her to stop sending weapons to the country doing genocide."

Good faith: "So basically you're demanding that she solves the entire conflict immediately."

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this post was submitted on 14 Oct 2024
733 points (80.6% liked)

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