Yup. Programmers who have only ever been programmers tend to act like god's gift to this world.

As a developer I can freely admit that without the operations people the software I develop would not run anywhere but on my laptop.

I know as much about hardware as a cook knows about his stove and the plates the food is served on – more than the average person but waaaay less than the people producing and maintaining them.

As a devops manager that’s been both, it depends on the group. Ideally a devops group has a few former devs and a few former systems guys.

Honestly, the best devops teams have at least one guy that’s a liaison with IT who is primarily a systems guy but reports to both systems and devops. Why?

It gets you priority IT tickets and access while systems trusts him to do it right. He’s like the crux of every good devops team. He’s an IT hire paid for by the devops team budget as an offering in exchange for priority tickets.

But in general, you’re absolutely right.

I've always found this weird. I think to be a good software developer it helps to know what's happening under the hood when you take an action. It certainly helps when you want to optimize memory access for speed etc.

I genuinely do know both sides of the coin. But I do know that the majority of my fellow developers at work most certainly have no clue about how computers work under the hood, or networking for example.

I find it weird because, to be good at software development (and I don't mean, following what the computer science methodology tells you, I mean having an idea of the best way to translate an idea into a logical solution that can be applied in any programming language, and most importantly how to optimize your solution, for example in terms of memory access etc) requires an understanding of the underlying systems. That if you write software that is sending or receiving network packets it certainly helps to understand how that works, at least to consider the best protocols to use.

But, it is definitely true.

It very much depends on how close to hardware they are.

If someone is working with C# or JavaScript, they are about as knowledgeable with hardware as someone working in Excel(I know this statement is tantamount to treason but as far as hardware is concerned it’s true

But if you are working with C or rust or god forbid drivers. You probably know more than the average IT professional you might even have helped correct hardware issues.

Long story short it depends.

Yep, unrealistic expectations.

Or "you need a 12th gen i7 to run this thing"... the thing is a glorified Avidemux.

No, we can't get gigabit fiber everywhere. No, I don't care if your program needs it. Yes, the laws of physics are laws for a reason. Write more robust code.

As a software person i have to protest at being called out like this. It's the fucking weekend man...stop picking on me for just one damn day.

Ouch yeah that windows endpoint stuff is really rattling though. I get you just can't whitelist some folder without compromising security, but when the "eNdPoInt pRoTeCtIon" just removes dlls and exes you are compiling (and makes your PC crawl) you really hate that shit.

Right click? 40 seconds plz (maybe any of the possible contextual right clicks might be on a virus so lets just check them all once again).

At home I have an old linux pc, and it blows those corpo super pcs out the window.

Rant off :-D

Ah yeah, IT people are chill, always be cool with them is also a good idea, not their fault all this crap exists.

"Their rules" are basic security precautions

And the more corporate the organisation the more rules, at least the places I have worked trusts developers enough to give local admin, that takes the edge off many tasks.

I think you probably don't realise you hate standards and certifications. No IT person wants yet another system generating more calls and complexity. but here is iso, or a cyber insurance policy, or NIST, or acsc asking minimums with checklists and a cyber review answering them with controls.

Crazy that there's so little understanding about why it's there, that you just think it's the "IT guy" wanting those.

Interesting comment on the Mac. At my workplace we can choose between Mac or Windows (no Linux option unfortunately, my personal computer runs Debian). Pretty much all the principle and senior devs go for Mac, install vim, and live in the command line, and I do the same. All the windows people seem over reliant on VSCode, AI apps, and a bunch of other apps Unix people just have cli aliases for and vim shortcuts. I had to get a loaner laptop from work for a week and it was windows. Tried using powershell and installing some other CLI tools and after the first day just shut the laptop and didn’t work until I got back from travel and started using my Mac again.

I'd say... elitism

Meh it's usually for shitty companies that expect their devs to write real software, ssh into things, access databases, but put the same hurdles in front of them as joeblow from sales who can't use an ipad to buy a sandwich without clicking a phishing link. So every new project is slowed down cause it takes weeks of emails and teams conversations to get a damn db sandbox and it's annoying.

On the other hand IT doesn't know you and has millions of issues to attend to

I spent a weekend helping my buddy who graduated magna cum laude with an Electrical and Computer Engineering degree build a PC. Given a breadboard and some schematics, he could probably have created working prototypes of half of the components, but figuring out where to put the screw risers under the motherboard? Forget about it.

Exactly what a dev would say... you guys don't have to deal with that 3rd gen i3 Jenny from accounting is running.