He clearly proved that he wasn't ready to be a master - it's not like a martial arts rank that you mostly just get because you're skilled, they also want you to be able to embody the ideals they stand for (flawed as they may be).

They certainly could have trained him better, but that makes them idiots, not assholes. But first and foremost, their most important failure was not detecting that Palpatine was a sith.

Mundi had a special exemption because his species was going extinct, and it was always supposed to be about attachment anyway - it's plausible that Mundi was able to produce offspring without personal attachment. Anakin could never have done it like that.

The Jedi code teaching students that emotions are dangerous, is about as useful as teaching abstinence in sex ed.

Stop teaching people to ignore attachments and focus on dealing with them in a healthy way instead.

i think the fact he was turned so easily proves he shouldnt have been trained to the extent he was. that single failure caused the eventual death of millions

More than that, they're just stupid.

Here's just one example of dumb Jedi stuff. I just rewatched the prequels and it occurred to me, that Anakin didn't really suddenly turn to the dark side because his mom died. He turned to the dark side because he didn't have any friends to check him when he's being a douche bag... The dude literally has nobody to talk to except for Padma, and he's forbidden from pursuing a romantic relationship with her, which is super frustrating. This is a scenario destined for failure. What he really needs are some friends he can talk to and vent at about his shitty situation.

Here's the weird thing though, remember that scene where Yoda is training a whole class of little padawans? Those padawans at least have a cohort, they have a group they can bond with and lean on as they grow up and continue their training. So if that's the way they run things, where is Anakin's cohort? Why is he isolated? Anakin has a single person as his mentor, boss, teacher, therapist, dad and only friend, that's not really healthy. And when that one person is gone for an extended period, that leaves Anakin with absolutely no support structure and a lot of temptation to make bad choices, this is setting him up for failure. Cause let's be honest, he's a teen, making bad choices is what they do.

Anakin shouldn't have been a master. Being good at fighting doesn't make you a good leader. The Jedi aren't Klingons.

No. "Master" Jedi are in control of their emotions to the point where they don't, for example, genocide a tribe, or kill their secret wife. They also objected to a power hungry politician interfering with their internal operations, and it turns out they were right about both people.

The Jedi failed their duty to the Republic by becoming isolated from the actual people and not addressing the corruption that had overtaken its leadership, partly in their desire to follow proper protocol and an appearance of objectivity, like in allowing slavery to flourish on Tattoine which wasn't in Republic space.

Don't think about that lesson too much.

Also, the thing I hate absolutely the most about Star Wars is that the "fans" don't know shit about Star Wars, and it's not that deep.

i don't think it's so much that they're actually the baddies as it is that they became too dogmatic and process-oriented to be able to do the good that they were trying to do. on the micro scale they were too inflexible with their rules to always do the right thing, and on the macro scale they could bend the rules however they wanted in the name of The Greater Good. protecting the Jedi order so that they could hypothetically do good later was more important than admitting to mistakes and exposing themselves to criticism to do tangible good in the moment. in less words, they meant well and had their heads pretty far up their asses. the Dooku episodes of Tales of the Jedi demonstrate this very well

whether or not this is just the Jedi Order or the larger light-side-user community is up for debate. a lot of people point to the prophecy of balance being brought to the force and say that that required an equal number of Jedi and Sith, and that idea seems to have seeped into Disney canon, but at least originally Lucas seemed to intend for the light side to represent balance and for the dark side to be a corruption of that, in which case the Jedi Order being assholes meant they also weren't really Jedi to begin with

another commente argues that of course they're assholes because they're a religion, but i'd argue that they're assholes because they're an organized religion. if being a Jedi is about harmony with all life and the force, as opposed to using it and abusing it, you can't create Jedi by using and abusing life forms the way a beaurocratic institution invariably does. it's not a coincidence that all of the great Jedi heroes throughout SW are either deviants within or otherwise estranged from the order. standing up for people and doing the right thing almost always involves sticking it to The Man, and the Jedi Order were The Man

Jedis are a cult. They want to bring peace but basically hold power and a hierarchical order, and don't plan on questioning it. Funny because that also was an issue of the Sovietic Party.

100%

The Jedi weren't "good" they were the absent of evil and that will never be enough for a just society because evil will exploit it eventually.

I've always considered, seperate to this larger discussion, that the Jedi are saying one thing and believing another uncritically. They want to bring balance to the force... By eliminating the sith.

Balance. A state of equilibrium. Notoriously not very well known for existing in a system where one of two elements has been removed.

"Only a sith deals in absolutes". Complete unthinking hipocracy in the name of the light.

Well I mean, what did you expect with space samurai?

Being a master isn't just about skill, it's also about wisdom and experience, perhaps even more than skill. It's perfectly reasonable that they wouldn't want to elevate him to that rank yet, given his behavior.

The Jedi order is 15% vague Eastern Philosophy that George Lucas half-remembered. 75% of cannon events trying to ret-con this philosophy into the media. And 10% of fan wishful thinking.

They barely do anything in the prequels to give motive to Anikin's rebellion. The only times it's seriously covered in the Disney cannon is a few episodes of Clone Wars where the council abandons Asoka, and some plot-lines that were teased in a canceled show.

Not to mention the Jedi take younglings for training while the Sith simply wait for them to make a choice.

yea, the jedi were ideological conservatives.

and that meme where Qui-Gon jinn brings back both Anakin and his mom instead of just Anakin?

is a very legitimate point.

the Jedi council chose to keep a jedi's mother in slavery instead of reuniting their family, freedom which would have come at a truly insignificant cost to the council.

Everyone in that story is basically an asshole.

They're all somewhat sympathetic. But yeah, the Sith suck, but so do the Jedi. This was also kind of emphasized in the Acolyte. But even before that, yeah, if you look at the prequels the Jedi were kind of dicks.

In a way, they did cause the fall of their own order just because they had bad vibes about Anakin instead of actually guiding him to not turn out the way they sensed. Seems a bit dickish to shun a dude just because the possibility that he turns out evil instead of, you know, teaching him not to be evil.

Luke ends up doing the same damn thing in the sequels. Scares the fuck outta his nephew which drives him to evil all because he had an intrusive thought and pulled out his lightsaber.

Somehow the entirety of the most messed up shit in the movies boils down to overreactions to perceived threats, while the very real threat sits back and consolidates power.

They're a religion, of course they're assholes.

According to this ancient documentary... Yes. Yes they are.

Well if it’s like real life yes. Everyone is an asshole.